Kissinger says Iraq not winnable

[Zkribbler]

I agree. Henry of K is a bright guy , but embraces totally the total amoral approach to foreign affairs . So read him, consider what he says, but beware

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well, he's a realist. The amoral approach to foreign affairs is what they do. It's about national interest.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
I agree. Henry of K is a bright guy , but embraces totally the total amoral approach to foreign affairs .

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[Zkribbler]

Oh, it is. Read Keilings's book Diplomacy Lessons: Realism for an Unloved Superpower. He's a former diplomat and discusses how human beings are basically moral creatures, and how much easier it is for U.S. diplomats to gain international cooperation when the U.S. is acting morally.

For example, Keilsing was working in Greece during the time the U.S. was trying unsuccessfully to stamp out the N17 terrorist group. Any local officials who wanted to help the U.S. had to do so gingerly because of remaiing Greek unhappiness with the U.S.'s support of the former military junta. However, once the U.S. backed off and let the Greeks take the lead, and the Greek began publicizing the human cost N17 was inflicting on the innocent, public support for the terrorists collapsed, and tips brought the terrorists to justice.

People want to succeed and to fail. It is therefore wise for the U.S. to be on the side of

[Imran Siddiqui]

As Machiavelli would say, the goal is to seem while acting either or .

[Admiral]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
As Machiavelli would say, the goal is to seem while acting either or .

Except that Machiavelli says that it is simply more effect to be perceived as

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
I Hillary becomes president, will she bomb serbia?

No, she'll just hire male interns

[Provost Harrison]

Good old Kissinger...he's got nicer legs than Hitler...and bigger t*ts than Cher!

[Dr Strangelove]

I didn't know that dead people could express opinions.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
People want to succeed and to fail. It is therefore wise for the U.S. to be on the side of

I thought of an even mo' betta' example:

Bush 41's war with Iraq was perceived as moral. The U.N. put together a large coalition of nations, and we kicked butt.

Bush 43's war with Iraq is perceived as immoral. The U.N. refused to sanctioned it. We hobbled together a lame "coalition of the willing," most of whom have since bailed. And we're now getting our butts kicked.

Proving works better than

Thus, I'd take Keisling over Kissinger anyday.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Bush 41's war with Iraq was perceived as moral. The U.N. put together a large coalition of nations, and we kicked butt.

What's moral about replacing a dictatorship with the monarchy they overthrew?

[GePap]

Why the hell would the US support the Kurds over the Turks???

Turkey is a major NATO ally, a moderate Islamic state friendly to Israel, who controls the headwaters of the Euphrates and Tigris. Now that Saddam is gone, what do the Kurds offer?

The US would dump the Kurds in a heart beat if the Turks pushed hard, and Turkey places its territorial integrity above any other thing, so the US would not be able to dissuade them.

As for a regional war, Iran would come ahead in the end- KSA and the gulf states are not strong enough to beat Iran, Syria has every reason to back Iran, not Egypt or KSA, both of which have left Syria to dry, Jordan has no power, and Turkey and Iran would probably share goals, crushing any Kurdish state. Israel could not sustain a long term engagement in such a war, and I after this initial Iraq mess, the only reason the west would get involved itself again would be to keep KSA and gulf oil out of Iran's hands.

[GePap]

We "liberated" Kuwait to keep Saddam's hands off that oil, and more importantly, drive him away from the oil fields of the House of Saud.

[Zkribbler]

...and to punish unprovoked aggression.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
...and to punish unprovoked aggression.

Yeah, right..... you mean "non-sanctioned" aggression.