Would NFL players still be hilarious obese if they played more?

[TCO]

I watched NCAA hockey. Did not see fights. Face it, Ashie. It's bull****. NHL fighting is NASCAR wreck crap.

BTW, why do Canadians have split heads?

http://www.dailymotion.com/flash/flvplayer.swf?rev=1163892333&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymotion.com%2Fget%2F402%2F320x240%2Fflv%2F265413.flv%3Fkey%3D17f9097045c8d872fc8943747b9f07351281394%26log%3D1%26log_blog_key%3D2BA4pR7JDmsqU172R%26log_referer%3D&previewURL=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.dailymotion.com%2Fdyn%2Fpreview%2F320x240%2F265413.jpg%3F20060617192842&autoStart=0&playerURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymotion.com%2Fvideo%2Fx5osl_715-christmas-in-canada&estatEnabled=1&estatClient=players_dm&estatSection=blog

[Elok]

There's nothing terribly mature about getting all excited watching men run around a field chasing a ball, or a puck, in the first place. It's just a way to have fun, and we accept that, and get on with our lives. Most of us do, anyway. The fact that Americans can get involved in a sport without resorting to direct physical aggression strikes me as more of a plus. It means that an NFL player's face is a good deal more pleasant to look at than his NHL equivalent's.

Come to think of it, weren't you posting a couple of weeks ago idolizing some Canuck player who retired after an illustrious career of starting fights on the ice? He didn't skate super-well, he wasn't a terribly good shot, but he made a long career in the sport out of being the "enforcer," the guy the coach sent in to start a brawl. According to Wikipedia (I got curious and looked him up at the time; his name started with a T, right?), his most lasting contribution to the game was a method of clinching with his opponent and spinning around as he punched him, thereby knocking him off balance and giving the guy control. Truly, a spectacular athlete. As opposed to other sports, where all the players actually play the game.

EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tie_Domi

I looked him from his link in their article on "enforcer (hockey)." Seems this guy played for over a decade. I say "played" in the same sense that I might say Bud White from LA Confidential was an accomplished police officer for his valuable role in beating a confession out of suspects.

[Asher]

Originally posted by TCO
I watched NCAA hockey. Did not see fights. Face it, Ashie. It's bull****. NHL fighting is NASCAR wreck crap.

You can have hockey without the fights, but it's not the same. It's proven to be effective in the NHL for helping your team.

I don't see why Americans cry about it. Do you not like it that the Canadians always win over the Americans in the fisticuffs or something?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Elok
There's nothing terribly mature about getting all excited watching men run around a field chasing a ball, or a puck, in the first place. It's just a way to have fun, and we accept that, and get on with our lives. Most of us do, anyway. The fact that Americans can get involved in a sport without resorting to direct physical aggression strikes me as more of a plus.

It depends -- instead these football players take out their aggression by abusing their wives. And Americans take out their aggression by invading Iraq.

You guys seem oblivious to the concept of adrenalin.

Come to think of it, weren't you posting a couple of weeks ago idolizing some Canuck player who retired after an illustrious career of starting fights on the ice? He didn't skate super-well, he wasn't a terribly good shot, but he made a long career in the sport out of being the "enforcer," the guy the coach sent in to start a brawl. According to Wikipedia (I got curious and looked him up at the time; his name started with a T, right?), his most lasting contribution to the game was a method of clinching with his opponent and spinning around as he punched him, thereby knocking him off balance and giving the guy control. Truly, a spectacular athlete. As opposed to other sports, where all the players actually play the game.

Actually, since again the Americans specialize in the superficial, the thread was a joke...I was mocking the player. I hate him.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Asher
You can have hockey without the fights, but it's not the same.

Yeah... it's not the same. Hockey without fights is a better game, and the world agrees. And that's why NO other hockey league allows that kind of crap.

It's proven to be effective in the NHL for helping your team.

Gee, a sport that requires fighting instead of skill... nothing to be proud of. It's actually something you should be ashamed about... but feel free to continue defending thuggery.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ming
You seem to be the one with the problem... EVERY other hockey league in the world doesn't allow fighting. It is not an intergral part of the sport... just some cheap crap that the NHL needs to get people to watch their boring product.

I don't know a SINGLE person who watches hockey for the fighting. Considering on average a game doesn't have a fight, why would they? Why would you waste 2.5-3 hours hoping for a simple scrap?

That's a bull**** argument, and you don't know it because you're clueless about hockey.

As I've said, statistics show fighting is a tactic that helps your team. The fans don't seem to mind, the players don't seem to mind, but Americans who elect presidents to kill civilians in other countries whine about it. Why? Boggles my mind.

NO OTHER league allows it... because it's just thuggery, which won't be stopped because the NHL knows that it's fans are more interested in fighting than the actual sport... a bush league league.

Just because football players, baseball players, and Americans in generals are pussies doesn't mean real men are. Real men can engage in consensual fisticuffs and enjoy it -- they can congratulate their opponent for it.

It doesn't matter that no other league allows it -- the NHL is the most popular, and it does. The NHLPA has no qualms against it, the NHL has no qualms against it, and most fans don't. The only people who do tend to be right-wing Americans who support the war in Iraq, or their complete opposites in their pen-pushing liberal weenies who can't watch hockey cause "gosh darn, it's just so fast!".

It's odd you call it a bush league because of the fighting, and at the same time make the case that the only reason fighting is allowed is because it gets people to watch it. Just because you watch the occasional game in hopes of seeing a fight, or your learned buddies do, doesn't mean this is the case. If this is going to be the center of your argument, back it up.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ming
Yeah... it's not the same. Hockey without fights is a better game

Says who?? People who don't watch hockey?

and the world agrees. And that's why NO other hockey league allows that kind of crap.

Then why is it that NHL games are the most popular to watch on BOTH sides of the atlantic?

NHL is the premiere league, the others don't allow it because they're kiddie leagues. They're farm leagues. They don't want their players getting damaged in any way before the big leagues.

Gee, a sport that requires fighting instead of skill... nothing to be proud of.

It doesn't require fighting. The vast majority of players do NOT fight. There's typically one or two guys on the team who will fight, and they do the fighting for the team.

You don't understand the dynamics of hockey.

In fact, recently it was a HUGE deal when a '**** from Toronto's team went to fight a guy on Ottawa's team who doesn't fight. He was very widely looked down upon by the rest of the league and the fans and media as well.

[Asher]

It's also funny that in defense of me calling football players pussies, you guys think it's apt to say "well, at least we don't fight! We're not pussies!"

[Elok]

Originally posted by Asher
It depends -- instead these football players take out their aggression by abusing their wives. And Americans take out their aggression by invading Iraq.

You guys seem oblivious to the concept of adrenalin.

Most athletes get an adrenaline rush without watching their teammates beat the snot out of each other. Or are you suggesting that at halftime the QB gets his boys all ready to go by telling them how he beat his wife last night? "Man, if it weren't for Manning's nine-iron and whiskey story, we'd be the worst team in the NFL."

Actually, since again the Americans specialize in the superficial, the thread was a joke...I was mocking the player. I hate him.

I don't see why. According to the standards you've established here, he was an invaluable team member. Nobody was better than Domi at beating the crap out of the other guy, right? Oh, and congratulations for fooling us with your clever ruse over the internet, where nobody can see your facial expression or hear your voice, while discussing some player most of us have never heard of, who plays a sport we don't follow. You got us good, Ash.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Asher

It depends -- instead these football players take out their aggression by abusing their wives. And Americans take out their aggression by invading Iraq.

i bet hockey players beat their wives as much if not more than nfl players

[Asher]

Originally posted by Elok
Most athletes get an adrenaline rush without watching their teammates beat the snot out of each other.

I agree. But when your team is down 4-0, the adrenalin starts fading and players start getting down. A good fight, and the game turns around.

A fight in the 03-04 playoffs, when the Flames were down 4-0, brought them to a 4-4 tie shortly thereafter as the team was just flying.

It's sports psychology. It's simply not the case that in athletes, the adrenalin is fully rushing 100% of the time in the game. A good fight kickstarts the game.

This is fact -- both academically, statistically, and anecdotally.

I don't see why. According to the standards you've established here, he was an invaluable team member. Nobody was better than Domi at beating the crap out of the other guy, right? Oh, and congratulations for fooling us with your clever ruse over the internet, where nobody can see your facial expression or hear your voice, while discussing some player most of us have never heard of, who plays a sport we don't follow. You got us good, Ash.

The whole point wasn't for people who don't watch hockey. It was aimed at people who do watch hockey and have some idea what's going on.

It's not my fault you didn't understand the context of the sport, my clear leanings of the sport on here, and put the two together. It went over your head because you're not familiar with Tie Domi, his history, or anything else.

Domi was a bonafide thug -- something I don't like in the league at all. I like players with tremendous talent and grit that can fight. Take Jarome Iginla, for instance.

On countless occasions, the team's been losing and someone decides to agitate him. He'll pick a fight, kick ass, and then come back and score multiple goals right after -- they call it waking a sleeping giant. A good fight gets the adrenalin pumping and improves the game from that point out, for everyone.

That said, players whose only purpose is to fight (eg, Domi) are players I don't believe belong in the league.

[Elok]

Wait, so it's considered bad form to attack someone who isn't on the ice to fight? Do you have a rule that each team has to have one thug in play at all times, then? Or is it just also considered poor sport to leave your goons on the bench and favor guys who skate and shoot better? You might streamline the game a good deal by just setting up a separate little strip of ice and setting the two teams' mascots there with boxing gloves. To balance the arena out, I guess you'd need a strip on the other side. Perhaps you could put a cockfight in that lane? I lack your understanding of the fine emotional subtleties involved in a fine athletic blood frenzy.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Elok
Wait, so it's considered bad form to attack someone who isn't on the ice to fight? Do you have a rule that each team has to have one thug in play at all times, then? Or is it just also considered poor sport to leave your goons on the bench and favor guys who skate and shoot better? You might streamline the game a good deal by just setting up a separate little strip of ice and setting the two teams' mascots there with boxing gloves. To balance the arena out, I guess you'd need a strip on the other side. Perhaps you could put a cockfight in that lane? I lack your understanding of the fine emotional subtleties involved in a fine athletic blood frenzy.

college football mascots already do this

[Asher]

Originally posted by Elok
Wait, so it's considered bad form to attack someone who isn't on the ice to fight?

I've never seen somebody engage in a fight who wasn't on the ice at the time.

Do you have a rule that each team has to have one thug in play at all times, then?

The concept of having a dedicated fighter (thug/enforcer) is pretty much gone.

But you do have players that handle themselves well in fights. And typically, this is done in a practice known as "line matching" -- if one team has a guy who is known to fight, his line is matched with someone equivalently from the other team. If not, they wait for the guy to get on the ice. They do not pick fights with people on the bench, and they do not generally pick fights with people who are known not to be fighters.

There is a tremendous amount of honour in hockey, which isn't clear from the American sports fan who sees clips of fights on TV or hears "fighting is bad mmkay" from their mother and regurgitate it. The reason we see fights in hockey stems from honour, and they're almost always two-way consensual fights with people who are known to fight as a way to kick their team in gear.

[Elok]

Okay, so why are you scorning my "American superficiality" for failing to see that you actually despised this guy I'd never heard of that you were praising emphatically? And don't say the ridiculousness of your claims should have clued me in--look at this ****e you're spouting now, when you're (presumptively) serious!