Dutch government says it plans to ban burqa

[Elok]

Mm-hmm. And how many of these oppressed women are living in Amsterdam? Really, you'd think the men who dominate them would move to a country with less whores, homosexuals, or nudity around as a bad influence, but ours is not to question the logic of evil moose-limbs.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DanS
I think that banning the burqa is stupid. Regulating acceptable clothing (beyond obscenity) is not part of the gov't's portfolio.

Some of you are fascists of the highest order.

Or maybe some of us actually give a **** about the oppression of women.

Also I would love to see secularism enforced in all government buildings and institutions as is done in France. No big crosses, no yarmalkes, no burkas. Junk them all and put on proper attire while in a school, court room, or other official government office.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Elok
Mm-hmm. And how many of these oppressed women are living in Amsterdam? Really, you'd think the men who dominate them would move to a country with less whores, homosexuals, or nudity around as a bad influence, but ours is not to question the logic of evil moose-limbs.

If these immigrant women are living in London and Berlin (as we KNOW they do) then the odds are pretty damn good they're in Amsterdam too.

Do a search in Dutch about honor killings. If honor killings are occuring in Holland then that's a damn good indicator that there are women being oppressed.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Are "Pakistan" and "Afghanistan" part of the Dutch state? Or is this yet another example of your bigotry towards Muslims. Maybe you and Trent Lott can get together and swap stories.

I call it how I see it. The burka should be banned because the burka truly is a symbol of oppression. Just as much as a Nazi flag or a southern flag.

What's worse is there is no religious justification for it in the Koran. It is completely fabricated to oppress women. It says only that women should be modest in their dress and yet some try to prevert burkas and head scarves into a religious duty. Screw that.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by DanS
I think that banning the burqa is stupid. Regulating acceptable clothing (beyond obscenity) is not part of the gov't's portfolio.

Some of you are fascists of the highest order.

[lord of the mark]

an absolute ban seems pretty extreme. But raising questions about, suggesting its not acceptable in certain govt offices, as Jack Straw has done, seems different. It also seems to me theres a difference between a burka and a Hijab. Just covering the hair is an issue of modesty. The burka, aside from its inconvenience to the wearer, makes the wearer unidentifiable, it means we're no longer "face to face" - it is very profoundly culturally alien in the West and suggests a degree of rejection of the West that the Hijab does not. I know thats not in itself a rationale for a ban, but I think it sets the context. Im surprised someone says theyve never seen in the NL - i see it fairly frequently over here.

And it IS much less common among even conservative muslims than the Hijab is. So its not like its an act of banning Islam, even less than banning the Hijab.

and ive also heard there are issues of substantial social pressure to wear it.

So my thoughts are mixed. I certainly wouldnt lobby for a ban here, but I am not unsympathetic to the movement to limit it over there. I certainly dont think it springs from fascist tendencies.

[Pekka]

I don't see how this is necessarily a good thing for freedoms, so I must oppose it, even if it's done on the excuse of security.

If you want to wear that thing, you should be able to wear that thing. That's how I feel about it.

It's a different thing if we talk about how that is a form of oppression and whatnot, but the bottom line to me is that if you want to wear it, you should be able to.

Maybe you can establish burqa free zones in places where the security is really breached with them, I don't know.

[Flip McWho]

Are they really making the choice to wear a burqa if they're wearing it from social/religious pressure?

[Pekka]

Oh, and we are not socially pressured to wear certain types of clothes?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Oerdin
They should go further and ban the head scarves as well as France has.

We should ban France.

[Barnabas]

I believe there should be a phone number for muslim women, that they could call for example if their father is trying to force her to marry she doesnt want, or not letting her marry someone she wants, or other forced limits on her freedom

[Flip McWho]

Oh, and we are not socially pressured to wear certain types of clothes?

Nudist camps

[DAVOUT]

For me the coolest attitude would be : you like to be dressed in a way that hide your identity, OK. But dont expect me to talk to you or to answer your questions because I cannot have a useful relationship based on equal terms with unidentified people.

[Datajack Franit]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
I believe there should be a phone number for muslim women, that they could call for example if their father is trying to force her to marry she doesnt want, or not letting her marry someone she wants, or other forced limits on her freedom

Many of them can´t speak the language of the country they have lived in for 10 years.

[Dinner]

Then they should never have been allowed to enter the country. If you want to build a new life in a new country then they simply must be able to speak the language before they enter. The US has done that for around 100 years and I can't see how it has harmed anything and I can see many ways how it has improved things.

They should also be forced to show they know something of the native culture, its values, and its history. If they want to make this thier new home then it is reasonable to expect them to know something about it if only so they will fit in better and understand what is going on around them.