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Call To Power 2 Cradle 3+ mod in progress: https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/call-to-power-2/ctp2-creation/9437883-making-cradle-3-fully-compatible-with-the-apolyton-edition
Originally posted by Oerdin
Imran is not a Palestinian nor an Arab. Your post refered to Palestinians.
Yes, but not exclusively them. My post referred to people who consider him a national hero for Palestine. Imran is one
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I don't dismiss the effect and influence that "great men" can have on history. But history is still made by ordinary people. It's clear that Arafat was a galvanizing force for the Palestinian people in the way that no one had been before and no one yet has been.
concievably, if Syria hadnt been able to use Arafat to undermine Nassers control of the Pal movement way back in '66, Nasser would have been in a stronger position to resist Syrian pressure for a new war, and the territories might never have ended up in Israeli control. But thats hard to say, Arafat as a personality wasnt that important yet, and the Syrians could have found someone else.
He did rouse the Pals after 1967. OTOH, given the history of Pal nationalism pre-67, and the conditions of occupation, and the support for Pal nationalism from the arab world, the USSR, etc, its hard to imagine a nationalist movement not forming. It would have been subtly different, whether more or less effective is hard to say.
Theres the outside chance that with no Arafat, Pal nationalism is weaker, and that Jordan is in a position to negotiate with Israel, and that a peace agreement would have been reached long ago, and most of the West Bank returned to Jordan. In which case the history of the region, and the world, would be different, and possibly much better.
Certainly Lebanese history would have been much better.
If he hadnt been around in 1987, assuming there was still an alt-intifadah, the Israelis might have been forced to deal with Bargouti and the other "internals" rather than the "tunisians". In retrospect, probably a better result.
He did participate in Oslo, which is still the basis, as far as there is one, for peace negotiations. OTOH he did a lot to undermine that after he was in power. Not that Bibi doesnt share some credit for gumming the works, but Bibi wasnt in power the whole Oslo period.
What was worst, of course, was that he missed the opportunity to make peace with Barak in 2000. At that point it became clear that he was an obstacle to peace.
Best times for Arafat to die - either in 1965, to give a chance to avoid the six day war, or in 1993, AFTER the Oslo accord, to give someone more sane among the Tunisians, like Abbas, a chance to implement the accords before as much bad will accumulated as in OTL. Arafat dies in '93, and even a slightly better peace process as a result, and we probably get Peres beating Bibi in '96, and probably a final settlement by 2000.
Which, BTW, probably means President Gore takes office in 2001.
Assuming alt-9/11 still happens, the situation will look alot different with a Dem president, and a Pal-Israeli peace settlement.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
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