The Purty Skyline and Architecture Thread

[Spiffor]

Colon, I think he means Tokyo and Yokohama are physically different, not just administratively. If I follow Laurentius correctly, if you want to go from downtown Tokyo to downtown Yokohama, you have to leave the dense urban area and go through more sparse suburbs (subs of Tokyo, and then subs of Yokohama).

As a result, Tokyo and Yokohama are different cities for real, just like Düsseldorf and Köln are different cities for real. The same can't be said of Puteaux, where La Défense lies: it used to be a village, and it owes its development solely to Paris expansion. Puteaux is definitely geared toward Paris, and couldn't be autonomous if it didn't belong to the Paris metro. Unlike Yokohaa, which seems to be a full fledged city, according to Lauri.

[Colonâ„¢]

It's hardly unusual for cities to have zones that are more sparsely populated before getting denser again. A basic example: between downtown Manhattan and Midtown Manhattan, there's a whole swathe of low-rise structures. Brooklyn also has a significant downtown area of its own, and I'm sure that elsewhere in NYC (as an administrative entity) you can find (smaller) centers of business activity. Even in smaller cities you can find multiple centers.

And as for Düsseldorf and Köln. Just check the satellite pictures on Google maps, the density simply does not compare.

Besides, I hate to cite wiki, but it states there's a large commute to Tokyo and even mentions Yokohama as a suburb of Tokyo. I doubt the author invented that out of thin air.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Colonâ„¢
It's hardly unusual for cities to have zones that are more sparsely populated before getting denser again. A basic example: between downtown Manhattan and Midtown Manhattan, there's a whole swathe of low-rise structures. Brooklyn also has a significant downtown area of its own, and I'm sure that elsewhere in NYC (as an administrative entity) you can find (smaller) centers of business activity. Even in smaller cities you can find multiple centers.

And as for Düsseldorf and Köln. Just check the satellite pictures on Google maps, the density simply does not compare.

Besides, I hate to cite wiki, but it states there's a large commute to Tokyo and even mentions Yokohama as a suburb of Tokyo. I doubt the author invented that out of thin air.

Ah, I don't think using downtow Manhattan to midtown Mahattan works at all in your comparison. Its a half and hour walk, hour at most, tops 4 miles. That isn't much of a difference. As for Brooklyn, it was once an independent City, which is why it does have its own downtown. NYC in fact is a modern creation, when the "orginal" New York City was merged with the City of Brooklyn, and swallowed the several townships of Queens County and Richmond County.

The more apt comparison would be NYC and Jersey City or Newark, both of which are independent cities of over 100,000 each, yet do act as suburbs of NYC. That said, they are the Metro Area of NYC.

Maybe it would be wiser to stop saying Tokyo and Yokahama are the same City and simply state they are part of the same Metropolitan area, which is true.

[Asher]

Paper-pushers to the rescue!

[Colonâ„¢]

Originally posted by GePap
As for Brooklyn, it was once an independent City, which is why it does have its own downtown.

Which would differ in the way Yokohama's downtown came into being, how? The point, that a single city can very well have multiple centers, still stands, regardless of how those centers came into being.

Metropolitan areas are a fairly loose concept. They allow for unbuilt territories between centers. Yokohama and Tokyo are single continuously built-up territory. I say we call it Kanto City.

[Cort Haus]

It can't compete with the Tokyos, Hong Kongs, and Manhattans, but I love my London.











and finally ... the view from the Primrose Hill near my home - site of the last scene of War of the Worlds.

[Cort Haus]

This is fun - a timelapse skyline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1T_EkuMwsk

[Colonâ„¢]

Now that we're talking about whatever-people-like-to-call-it anyway:

[Cort Haus]

Wow. And as if the skyline itself wasn't enough, there's only a sodding volcano in the background as well.

[Colonâ„¢]

Asher is going to give up on men, and instead make love with printed pictures from now on:

[Krill]

View of the Viaduct. Would have been better if they got Palace Green in the background IMO



University College, in the castle.

[Drake Tungsten]

if you want to go from downtown Tokyo to downtown Yokohama, you have to leave the dense urban area and go through more sparse suburbs (subs of Tokyo, and then subs of Yokohama).

Nope. And Tokyo's skyline sucks anyway.

[laurentius]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Colon, I think he means Tokyo and Yokohama are physically different, not just administratively. If I follow Laurentius correctly, if you want to go from downtown Tokyo to downtown Yokohama, you have to leave the dense urban area and go through more sparse suburbs (subs of Tokyo, and then subs of Yokohama).

As a result, Tokyo and Yokohama are different cities for real, just like Düsseldorf and Köln are different cities for real. The same can't be said of Puteaux, where La Défense lies: it used to be a village, and it owes its development solely to Paris expansion. Puteaux is definitely geared toward Paris, and couldn't be autonomous if it didn't belong to the Paris metro. Unlike Yokohaa, which seems to be a full fledged city, according to Lauri.

Yes Spiffor you are right. These cities are very far from each other, 30 km. The Tokyo subway doesnt reach Yokohama. Both signs of a physically different city. Köln and Dusseldorf are excellent examples. Grown together but still referred to individually. Yokohama indeed is a full fledged city. And in fact its inclusion in the Greater Tokyo region is in itself a bit artificial since the Japanese authorities include everything 50km from the Tokyo imperial palace in it.

Originally posted by Colonâ„¢
It's hardly unusual for cities to have zones that are more sparsely populated before getting denser again. A basic example: between downtown Manhattan and Midtown Manhattan, there's a whole swathe of low-rise structures. Brooklyn also has a significant downtown area of its own, and I'm sure that elsewhere in NYC (as an administrative entity) you can find (smaller) centers of business activity. Even in smaller cities you can find multiple centers.

And as for Düsseldorf and Köln. Just check the satellite pictures on Google maps, the density simply does not compare.

Besides, I hate to cite wiki, but it states there's a large commute to Tokyo and even mentions Yokohama as a suburb of Tokyo. I doubt the author invented that out of thin air.

Again you fail to see the scope here. Midtown and Downtown Manhattan are NOT 30 km apart now are they. The NYC subway runs through both of them right? You need to expand you horizons here. We are talking about Tokyo Megacity. That consists of Tokyo itself with its multiple centers, Kawasaki with its own center, Chiba withs its own center and Yokohama with its own multiple centers.

Just looking at Google maps in this case can be very misleading since they only show you where the concrete is. Its a well known fact that from the 1980ties onwards the Japanese construction industry was overheated and covered basically everything in concrete. More than half of Japanese shoreline is covered in concrete for example.

Also I would not suggest using Wiki as your source very much. Those articles are written by amateurs and tourist officials. To say that Yokohama is only a suburb of Tokyo sounds like something a native Tokyo resident would write about his rival neighbour. The author seems to have indeed invented that out of thin air.

Originally posted by GePap

Ah, I don't think using downtow Manhattan to midtown Mahattan works at all in your comparison. Its a half and hour walk, hour at most, tops 4 miles. That isn't much of a difference. As for Brooklyn, it was once an independent City, which is why it does have its own downtown. NYC in fact is a modern creation, when the "orginal" New York City was merged with the City of Brooklyn, and swallowed the several townships of Queens County and Richmond County.

The more apt comparison would be NYC and Jersey City or Newark, both of which are independent cities of over 100,000 each, yet do act as suburbs of NYC. That said, they are the Metro Area of NYC.

Maybe it would be wiser to stop saying Tokyo and Yokahama are the same City and simply state they are part of the same Metropolitan area, which is true.

This is all true. Basically it all boils down to the level of attention to details and being able to understand the history as part of the modern complex metro areas. To demonstrate using the current topic.

Stage one would be to see Tokyo and Osaka as one huge metro area. This is used sometimes in government and scientific studies on how to develope the so called First National Axis of Japan. In the "kakuto" model in particular where the plan has been to spread the capital along this one-hour Tokyo-Nagoya-Osaka route using Linear Express .

This kind of perspective has its own limitations however due to its huge scope and so the FNA can be divided as the Kansai region where Osaka is, the Chubu region where Nagoya is and the Kanto region. This would be stage two. This level is also where Colon has got stuck. The Kanto region indeed includes both Tokyo and Yokohama but under the Third National Development Plan(San Zenso) in 1977 self-governing units and major core regions were established. In this Tokyo and Yokohama are again both core cities of their respective self-governing region.

The third stage is to recognise the fact that the South Kanto/Tokyo Metro Area actually consists of these self-governing regions(prefectures) and core cities. In fact Tokyo prefecture is home to only 12 million people of whom only 8,5 live in Tokyo itself. Yokohama is home to antoher 3,5 million, Saitama is home to 7 million and Chiba another 6 million. Together These are not some small places you can just ignore! Tokyo itself is only an equal partner in this arrangement. This is why I accused Colon of ingnorance, because even if he knows-as he claimed he did- he refuses to accept these facts as "technicalities".

The natural fourth stage then is to aknowledge the wards or municipalities withing these prefectures. As I've already mentioned in my previous posts Tokyo prefecture for example is divided into 62 wards each with their own city councils and mayors. In fact de jure no such city as Tokyo exist!

So Tokyo Metro Area is just 4 administratively as well as to a certain degree physically separate entities rounded togerher. Ironically for purely administrative reasons. Something Colon doesnt care about.

Originally posted by Asher
Paper-pushers to the rescue!

Yeah like you never argue about tehcnicalities here

Originally posted by Colonâ„¢

Which would differ in the way Yokohama's downtown came into being, how? The point, that a single city can very well have multiple centers, still stands, regardless of how those centers came into being.

Metropolitan areas are a fairly loose concept. They allow for unbuilt territories between centers. Yokohama and Tokyo are single continuously built-up territory. I say we call it Kanto City.

Again you cant pull stuff out of your ass like that.

There is no "Kanto City" its a megalopolis consisting of numerous cities. The more close comparison would be to include Philadelphia with NYC. Tokyo and Kawasaki maybe different but Tokyo-Yokohama has large industrial areas and suburbs in between each other. As I've said looking at Google Maps is misleading, these are enormous areas we are talking about here!

In the end there is simply no reasons other than adminstrative to talk about the Tokyo Metro Area as a whole. For a thread like this it is most appropriate to make these distinctions for the people to know what theyre actually looking at. "Tokyo" is just way too vague.


For more Tokyo pics go to http://tokyoyakei.cool.ne.jp/ where most of my photos and Colons most recent photos are from.

[Colonâ„¢]

Oh shut up



That is not a separate city, end of story.

[laurentius]

ok, bye