I need a brief of summary of everything the Catholic Church messed up on

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Demerzel


The political impact the Pope could have wielded made the lack of military might redundant. Historical records have shown that it was highly unlikely that Mussolini would have dared to act against the Pope.

Secondly, even if he was arrested shortly afterwards, his message would have been heard and stopped millions of Jews passively accepting transportation to the camps. More would have tried to actively escape and prevented such a large scale loss of life. As Pope, fear of arrest and death should not have been enough to prevent him doing his duty to protect life around the world...

This is hardly likely, seeing as the Vatican were too busy supporting the Reich's quisling regime in Croatia, with its own campaign of racial extermination (which actually shocked top Nazis). The beatification of the pro-Ustashi Cardinal Stepinac by Pope JPII continued this tradition.

Here's Stepinac (right) with Ante Pavelic (saluting, left).

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by BeBro
How did they assist the nazi's rise to power?

Hitler needed the vote of the Catholic party Zentrum for his enabling act and they obliged, as advised by their leader Monsignor Ludwig Kaas, a close friend and advisor to Eugenio Pacelli, the future Pope Pius XII.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Assisting the Nazis to power.

The church actually condemned fascism and nazizm after they got to power (Pius XI did that). Indeed, catholic center party helped Hitler in a way, but they weren't aware of the consequences

Originally posted by Demerzel
The Pope standing idly by as millions of Jews were massacred by the Nazi's "final solution".

Pope was officially thanked for his help to the Jews during the war by numerous jewish personalities and organisations, including Israel (Golda Meir) and Einstein

The allegations towards Pius XII are silly.
Of course, he was not as anti-nazi as Pius XI, but done well enough.

This photo is not appropriate. We know more about Hitler and ww2 than church, not to mention particular priests, did.

[Tattila the Hun]

Try "World History", pretty much a continuous blunder.

[DanS]

celibacy of priests after you have a legacy of pope orgies!

Neither celibacy nor orgies are part of RC doctrine. There are married priests (converts from Anglicanism).

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Elok


Shhh! People learn better from experience. Besides, this might be entertaining.

I was reading about the Jews of interwar Romania last night. When I read about the Romanian Orthodox Patriarchs support for the antisemitic movement in Romania, i thought of you, elok.

[Elok]

Really? I read about John Calvin long ago. He was just as monstrous and repressive to the Catholics he opposed as they were to him, but he wasn't too bad to the Jews so he must have been okay. Made me think of you.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by DanS


Neither celibacy nor orgies are part of RC doctrine. There are married priests (converts from Anglicanism).

so the popes were just corrupt, immoral and fallible?

[DanS]

Yep. On matters not involved with doctrine. Quoting such "problems" will have no impact on an RC.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


Hitler needed the vote of the Catholic party Zentrum (...)

That's so much "the church" as today's CDU (Merkel's party) and CSU (its Bavarian sister party) are - so not at all.

[pchang]

Try Purgatory and Limbo

http://www.conservativeonline.org/journals/06_19_journal/2002v6n19_id03.htm

In general, Doctrine is about the central beliefs of a religion. These tend not to change. Individual actions (even those of leaders) contrary to those doctrines are usually pretty easy to find. However, they do not contradict the "rightness" of those doctrines.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Elok
Really? I read about John Calvin long ago. He was just as monstrous and repressive to the Catholics he opposed as they were to him, but he wasn't too bad to the Jews so he must have been okay. Made me think of you.

Ive never said John Calvin was a nice guy or that he wasnt a bigot (I still think hes an objectively progressive figure in European history though). Glad youre willing to acknowledge that some Orthodox patriarchs, in the 20th century, were antisemitic bigots.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by DanS
Yep. On matters not involved with doctrine. Quoting such "problems" will have no impact on an RC.

i see you ignored notre dame football

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Observance of the sabbath.

[Elok]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Ive never said John Calvin was a nice guy or that he wasnt a bigot (I still think hes an objectively progressive figure in European history though). Glad youre willing to acknowledge that some Orthodox patriarchs, in the 20th century, were antisemitic bigots.

TBH, I don't care. Prior to the second world war it was downright fashionable to hate the Jews, and in some parts of the world it still is. As long as it isn't church doctrine, I'm not overly bothered, though of course it's not a good thing. I find your ethnocentrism more disturbing, as you're educated enough to know better.