DC Mongolian Community pushes for Genghis Kahn statue

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Lincoln's forces massacred and burned Atlanta. They didn't even bother plundering it first ...

I dont know if youre a liar, or just ignorant. Sherman had Atlanta evacuated, there was no massacre there. It was not plundered cause Sherman wasnt interested in plunder - Atlanta was burned because it was a railroad terminal,warehouse and industrial center. He didnt have the troops to hold it, so he burned it.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Tell me where Lincoln had civilians killed?


Roosevelt and Churchill were implicated in strategic bombing. That bombing was done against cities where war production took place. Whether that justified the bombing or not is another question - but I see no evidence that they ever had deliberated targeted civilians. There IS a famous memo by Harris about "dehousing". But we're not talking about a memorial to Harris, are we?

Tokyo and Dresden. That's enough for me.

Khan generally killed off the aristocracy of the nations he invaded, which would be the closest thing to strategic bombing available at the time. In most cases where the population accepted his forces, he happily occupied them without a major massacre. Unfortunately the aristocrats weren't generally willing to give in without a fight, since they caught on quickly that they were probably goners regardless.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Revisionist history is comparing people of a time long past to our modern standards, ignoring the time and place in which they lived. That's BS.

That's exactly what people do when digging out some of his better aspects like that he was "ardent free trader". They do this only since "free trade" sounds good from today's POV - that's classic spin.

And I'm far too lazy to discuss your long "he wasn't worse than XYZ" speeches, but as LS wrote, we usually don't build new statues for inquisitors (or so) either so I fail to see the relevance.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


Ok, 20,000 vs. 60 million. Hmmm....

I wasnt comparing the inquisition to GK in terms of scale. I was merely quibbling with Brachys low number of deaths related to the inquisition and expulsion - and yes, I know they are different, which is why i asked for the clarification.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


I dont know if youre a liar, or just ignorant. Sherman had Atlanta evacuated, there was no massacre there. It was not plundered cause Sherman wasnt interested in plunder - Atlanta was burned because it was a railroad terminal,warehouse and industrial center. He didnt have the troops to hold it, so he burned it.

Hmm, apparently ignorant. I'd doubt the death toll was zero, but I had thought it was fairly high.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by BeBro


That's exactly what people do when digging out some of his better aspects like that he was "ardent free trader". They do this only since "free trade" sounds good from today's POV - that's classic spin.

And I'm far too lazy to discuss your long "he wasn't worse than XYZ" speeches, but as LS wrote, we usually don't build new statues for inquisitors (or so) either so I fail to see the relevance.

Free trade was good then, too, and was a critical element in the modernization of the eastern (and western) world...

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


I wasnt comparing the inquisition to GK in terms of scale. I was merely quibbling with Brachys low number of deaths related to the inquisition and expulsion - and yes, I know they are different, which is why i asked for the clarification.

I know, and my comment was for snoopy's benefit more than yours, I know you are pretty sane and balanced in this thread.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by snoopy369


Tokyo and Dresden. That's enough for me.

Lincoln bombed Tokyo and Dresden?

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by snoopy369


Hmm, apparently ignorant. I'd doubt the death toll was zero, but I had thought it was fairly high.

I doubt it was zero too.

Was it 60 million? No.

Was it 10 million? No.

1 million? No.

100 thousand? No.

10,000? Maybe, but very, very doubtful.

Genghis Khan is on the level of Hitler and Stalin and the other men we identify as being the most bloody, destructive people known to man. That Genghis Khan was a free trader and religiously tolerant is just as relevant as Hitler being an environmentalist or Stalin industrializing Russia.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


I know, and my comment was for snoopy's benefit more than yours, I know you are pretty sane and balanced in this thread.

That's like Fox, right?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by snoopy369


Tokyo and Dresden. That's enough for me.

.

even if i accepted your charecterization of the above, which I dont, thats 100,000 for Tokyo and 30,000 for Dresden. Where do you get millions.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


I doubt it was zero too.

Was it 60 million? No.

Was it 10 million? No.

1 million? No.

100 thousand? No.

10,000? Maybe, but very, very doubtful.

Genghis Khan is on the level of Hitler and Stalin and the other men we identify as being the most bloody, destructive people known to man. That Genghis Khan was a free trader and religiously tolerant is just as relevant as Hitler being an environmentalist or Stalin industrializing Russia.

Yes, I realize I was mistaken about Atlanta, already mentioned that.

Khan and his unification of much of Asia was responsible in large part for the modernization of the western world, trading goods and ideas between the east and the west. Just as Stalin to some extent did good things for Russia, and should be credited with such, Genghis Khan should be credited as well.

Are we simply to decide that everyone pre-1700 or so is not worthy of any respect? Because anyone pre-1700 or so that led a nation was responsible for killing a lot of people. Except for the Dalai Lama, maybe, and even the Buddhists weren't exactly nice guys for a good long while.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


even if i accepted your charecterization of the above, which I dont, thats 100,000 for Tokyo and 30,000 for Dresden. Where do you get millions.

Millions between those that died from the afteraffects, and died in other actions than those two. I doubt Khan actually killed millions in any given city either - frankly that would have taken way too long, given his relatively small army (number-wise). More than likely he dispersed most of the residents of the cities, and many of them later died of starvation.

[lord of the mark]

according to wiki, there were a TOTAL of 1.8 million German civilian deaths during WW2. That presumably includes deaths from disease and hunger, deaths inflicted by the Soviets when the reached Germany, and deaths from bombings that actually hit armaments factories that had workers in them at the time.

[LordShiva]

OK, let's credit Genghis for unifying central Asia and modernising the Western world. But let's not build a statue to a slaughterer.