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  • This dork is blaming Israel for the Pope's remark?

    Iran leader blames US-Israeli conspiracy for pope remarks

    by Aresu Eqbali
    1 hour, 5 minutes ago

    TEHRAN (AFP) -
    Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has blamed a US-Israeli conspiracy aiming to sow conflict between religions for remarks by the
    Pope Benedict XVI on Islam and violence that unleashed a wave of anger across the Muslim world. ADVERTISEMENT



    Khamenei said the comments were part of the same conspiracy that started with the US invasion of
    Iraq and has been hatched by great powers intent on creating crises between religions to "pursue their evil objectives".

    "Leaders of the arrogant imperialists have already defined the links of the chain in this US-Zionist project by attacking Iraq," Khamenei said in comments broadcast on state television.

    "The issue of the insulting cartoons and remarks of some politicians about Islam are different links in the conspiracy of the Crusaders, and the pope's remarks are the latest links in this," he added.

    The pope's comments, which unleashed a wave of anger in the Islamic world, came after caricatures published in a Danish newspaper last year deemed insulting to the Prophet Mohammed set off deadly protests.

    "The most important aim of these remarks is the creation of a religious crisis in the world and to make different religions confront each other," Khamenei continued.

    "This is the intention of those powers whose survival is dependent on creating crisis to pursue their evil objectives in the international community."

    He said protests against the pope's remarks should be targeted at the "great Satan", the Islamic republic's traditional term for its arch foe the United States, with whom it has no diplomatic relations.

    "Everyone should consider that in this case the great Satan is responsible. The direction of the attacks and objections should be focussed on those that benefit from these unfair remarks by the pope," said Khamenei.

    "These remarks were a surprise from a high Christian official and very much to be regretted," he added.

    In a speech in Germany on Tuesday, the pope spoke of a link between Islam and jihad, or "holy war", and quoted a 14th-century Byzantine emperor who said innovations introduced by the Prophet Mohammed were "evil and inhuman".

    On Sunday the pope said he was "deeply sorry" for the outrage triggered across the Muslim world by the remarks he made about Islam, and stressed they had not reflected his personal opinion.

    Iran's government spokesman said earlier the expression of deep regret by
    Pope Benedict for the outrage sparked by his comments did not go far enough, calling on the pontiff to admit he had made a mistake.

    "The pope was right to give these explanations and he said that his comments were badly reported," government spokesman Gholam Hossein Elham told reporters.

    "These explanations were necessary but not sufficient. He needs to say more clearly that what he said was an error and correct it," he added.

    Elham also echoed Khamenei's comments that the United States and
    Israel were implicated in the affair. "It is important that religious figures take care not to fall into the traps of the Zionists," he said.
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

    Comment


    • Originally posted by aneeshm

      . There is also the fact to consider that the only violent act in the life of Christ ( the temple episode ) was a typical human reaction of somebody seeing his deepest ideals violated , and the violation taking the most concrete of forms .

      His ideals conflicted with support for temple upkeep? Jews around the world gave donations for the temple, which, IIUC, had to be converted to half shekels to be halakhically proper. So he didnt like this custom, he had to get violent?
      "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

      Comment


      • From Sloww's article:

        "This is the intention of those powers whose survival is dependent on creating crisis to pursue their evil objectives in the international community."


        I had to smile considering the source.
        "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
        "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

        Comment


        • Originally posted by lord of the mark



          His ideals conflicted with support for temple upkeep? Jews around the world gave donations for the temple, which, IIUC, had to be converted to half shekels to be halakhically proper. So he didnt like this custom, he had to get violent?
          And again you forget - he was HUMAN ! Humans make some mistakes ! Christ made one ! It was an aberration ! Get over it ! Christ would be boring as hell if he wasn't human !

          Comment


          • I'm not sure it was a mistake.
            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lord of the mark



              His ideals conflicted with support for temple upkeep? Jews around the world gave donations for the temple, which, IIUC, had to be converted to half shekels to be halakhically proper. So he didnt like this custom, he had to get violent?
              Are you familiar with the story?

              JM
              Jon Miller-
              I AM.CANADIAN
              GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

              Comment


              • Standard Christian doctrine is that while Christ could make mistakes.. that he didn't.

                LotM is going to say that we don't understand the time, that what was going on was appropriate. Christians maintain that we do understand the situation, and that what was going on was inappropriate, and that Christ's response was appropriate.

                Jon Miller
                Jon Miller-
                I AM.CANADIAN
                GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                Comment


                • I have a question about what some of you are defining as violence; how can the anger of seeing the temple of his father being used for commercial activity, can be associated with the same violence; than killing, beating someone else? He wanted to show that the love of his father was consuming him.

                  Anger can be good... it's not, essentially bad.
                  bleh

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by aneeshm
                    And again you forget - he was HUMAN ! Humans make some mistakes ! Christ made one ! It was an aberration ! Get over it ! Christ would be boring as hell if he wasn't human !
                    I take the opposite stance. He was the son of God. He was within his rights to be upset by blatant materialism and opportunism within the halls of the temple. Corporal punishment is certainly not without precedent in Hebrew law and attempting to make money off of worship is deeply offensive, so I'd say the buggers got off quite lightly.

                    And this wasn't about donations to the temple per se, lotm. It was about people setting up shop right there and selling animals or offering moneychanging services. That crap needs to be kept in a marketplace, convenient or not.
                    1011 1100
                    Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

                    Comment


                    • Elok
                      bleh

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jon Miller
                        Standard Christian doctrine is that while Christ could make mistakes.. that he didn't.

                        LotM is going to say that we don't understand the time, that what was going on was appropriate. Christians maintain that we do understand the situation, and that what was going on was inappropriate, and that Christ's response was appropriate.

                        Jon Miller
                        which is fine with me. But if we are going to accept a Christian view of this incident as acceptable for Christians, so that the incident cant be used to demonstrate violence within "core" christianity, is not incumbent on us to be charitable in looking at the core Islamic documents, and to interpret them in light of how muslims see what was appropriate, in understanding the degree to which violence is present in core Islamic texts?
                        "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Elok


                          I take the opposite stance. He was the son of God. He was within his rights to be upset by blatant materialism and opportunism within the halls of the temple. Corporal punishment is certainly not without precedent in Hebrew law and attempting to make money off of worship is deeply offensive, so I'd say the buggers got off quite lightly.

                          And this wasn't about donations to the temple per se, lotm. It was about people setting up shop right there and selling animals or offering moneychanging services. That crap needs to be kept in a marketplace, convenient or not.
                          Why is making money off of worship offensive? Is making money off of the fact that humans need to eat offensive? Is human life less holy than Temple worship? why cant it take place in a forecourt of the Temple, if theres no halakha against it? Not all parts of the Temple were equal in holiness, and, OTOH, the entire city of Jerusalem is holy to some degree. Indeed, the entire land of Israel is holy.

                          Look, Im not attacking Jesus. What he did was a key to establishing new outlook, that of Christianity, which has produced many valuable things. But the attempt to say that it wasnt violent, cause of how bad what was being done is, seems to be special pleading. What do muslims think of the things being done in Mecca at the time of Muhammed - flagrant idolatry, etc.
                          "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by lord of the mark


                            which is fine with me. But if we are going to accept a Christian view of this incident as acceptable for Christians, so that the incident cant be used to demonstrate violence within "core" christianity, is not incumbent on us to be charitable in looking at the core Islamic documents, and to interpret them in light of how muslims see what was appropriate, in understanding the degree to which violence is present in core Islamic texts?
                            Fair enough. Islam is "violent" insofar as it allows spreading the faith by military conquest and offering a choice between conversion and death to idolaters, at least judging by the actions of its founder. Christianity is "violent" insofar as it (by this reasoning) allows for physical force in removing corruption from the church itself.
                            1011 1100
                            Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Elok

                              Corporal punishment is certainly not without precedent in Hebrew law

                              Applied by a proper court, with witnesses, a chance for the defendent to present his side, etc.
                              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Elok


                                Fair enough. Islam is "violent" insofar as it allows spreading the faith by military conquest and offering a choice between conversion and death to idolaters, at least judging by the actions of its founder. Christianity is "violent" insofar as it (by this reasoning) allows for physical force in removing corruption from the church itself.
                                There is more if you count the OT, obviously. Even more if you count Popes calling for crusades and such.

                                This is what I was on about when I questioned the definition of "core."

                                -Arrian
                                grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                                The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                                Comment

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