I love Lidl

[Ecthy]

Last time I checked this isn't a debate on religion or social politics. In other words: TLDR

[RGBVideo]

look kids, a corporation can not afford to do charity, it's job is usually to maximise it's own profits. It's the job of the government to make laws which ensure that workers make a decent living out of their jobs. This is the way how middle class was created at the start of the 20th century out of the proles living in slums of the just industrialized Europe of the late-19th century.

if aivo would really give two ****s about rights of the workers, he would vote a party which makes laws resulting in more rights for them. but he doesn't -- last elections, he voted for SDP, the party which has concentrated on lowering the taxes of their ultra-rich buddies and raising their own wages 5% annum while taking votes from morons by talking how they should rule

a government-ruling party talking about what they would do if they'd win elections

[Pekka]

Figures.

Well, when you understand that business is about making money and not collecting friends in thousands and paying for them jsut because you want, out of charity, then we are definitely on different pages. In short, people who can't fulfill their duty respecting the contract can and should be fired. This includes managers who can't do their job, as in keeping the conditions good enough. It usually doesn't cost any money, just requires competency.

Managers are also workers. I'm also up for firing them. ANyone should be fair game if they can't do their job or if they break the contract. Everyone. Including founder, if investors are in.

[Meticulous Man]

To bother with a serious reply (to VJ) or not to bother.

[Pekka]

And I'm all for workers rights, it's usually a question of good leadership anyway.

So, when an individual becomes difficult to manage, they should go somewhere else. So there's both ways here. And yes we have incompetent managers and incompetent subordinates. We always have and always will. And yes, managers rarely get fired from mistakes that don't effect to the results. I'm all for letting them go as well.

And supervisors are supposed to have several qualities, like communicating with the other workers and keeping them happy with the tools he has, which usually means great social skills. A way to push them to do the job correctly and fast enough, but still keep them alive and happy. And a good supervisor will keep the managers up to date and request for everything that is needed to improve the conditions into satisfactory level. BUt they do get fired also pretty easily. And it should be so.

But hardly do I blame a big business if they have bad supervisor or two, everyone has them. Everyone has cases of workers rights abuse as long as they are human also.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Pekka
And no, I don't think employees should be treated like robots. But I understand fast working is required in some places. But fast is fast enough if it gets the work done on time. So in this case, there can be also 'work faster' when it doesn't do any good, that might be unnecessary.

The faster the cashiers work, the fewer cashiers Lidl will have to hire to keep up with the customer base.

This means that a cashier will never be fast enough, unless he manages to keep up with all the customers, without the need of any colleague.

[Meticulous Man]

Personally, after hearing the story of my buddy who worked for Lidl and becoming (superficially) acquainted with Lidl's track record in various countries, I've stopped buying stuff at them. I don't need any of their stuff, I'm completely satisfied with the prices and selections of the other chains we have. But if someone else feels the need to shop at Lidl, may he/she feel free to do so.

[Pekka]

Spiffor, sure, they can never be fast enough to wipe my crocodile tear..

Aivo, Ok. As you should know, I wasn't talking about your buddies.. I don't know them or the cases. Most likely they were right anyway so.. mostly in general.

[RGBVideo]

Originally posted by Aivo½so
To bother with a serious reply (to VJ) or not to bother.

lame copout from obvious hypocricy

[MMC]

My house was nearly underneath the biggest Lidl warehouse in the UK, if not Europe. All because the local town council refused to tell them about the industrial estate that was just down the road.

Since none of the houses on my mini-estate are council houses, they refuse to admit we exist.

That said, Lidl are great for bulk Lemonade & Cola (Freeway ), and bulk Fruit Juices (Apfelsaft & Orangensaft ). Also random furniture. I find that Lidl's stores are 50% random foreign crap, and 50% giant bargain bin.

Personally I can't stand Asda (UK store owned by... Wal-Mart ).

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Aivo½so
To bother with a serious reply (to VJ) or not to bother.

I've tried once. What use are human communication standards and western values when you argue with a beast?

[Meticulous Man]

Originally posted by VJ

lame copout from obvious hypocricy

Originally posted by Ecthy

I've tried once. What use are human communication standards and western values when you argue with a beast?

That's discussing a poster and not the issue (though it was, of course, VJ who started it). I think his main point wrt the issue is that he supports pressuring companies to act more ethically through legislation and is opposed to consumer boycott. And I don't know whether that kind of stuff really falls into the scope of this thread as Pekka intended it.

[Ecthy]

No. The main issue at hand is that VJ is a MoFo

[Pekka]

Ecthy, come on .. But I would be delighted if I was categorized as beast by your standards as well. It just sounds so cool.. a true beast!


Aivo, and no, I didn't inted to discuss business ethics or laws here, but since you mentioned about these cases with your friends, I had to reply... besides I find this an interesting topic anyway so it's ok.

What I said I do hold as my views, but I also recognize that not everything falls under guidelines and rules. There are people with attitude problems and who simply just aren't suitable for the job and as such should be replaced by other people. However, even if we go within the rules, it is very possible to turn the heat on in ways that is not acceptable in my books and the way to treat employees. When everything works, then you can turn the heat on, but if you should look in the mirror, that should be fixed first. That's my opinion anyway and most likely your friends were treated unfairly and were in the hands of incompetent supervisor. And they did the right thing by leaving. They should look for other opportunities and have the chance to choose from few places at the end, so they can afford to disregard these kind of practices. In no way do I encourage employees to be treated as nameless and faceless work force. They must be respected as individuals and they must be supported and they must have support functions. If not, the employer as lacking basic concepts and it shows in their track record negatively at the end.

But for people with attitude problems and who can't just do their job, I hardly consider business to be responsible charity either.

So there's two sides and I support my views, I think there's middle ground here and not two sides fighting each other. Unless we want to go to class society by force. Class society we will continue to have in terms of income or the lack of it, however, my view is that we can at least give an equal chance for everyone to succeed. That includes businesses, especially small businesses.

[Ecthy]

You don't qualify as a beast, at least not in the sense VJ does.

In this regard, beast is the opposite of being SuperCitizen.