I love Lidl

[RGBVideo]

Lidl
Pekka

[Ecthy]

Aldi

Reichelt

[Pekka]

I mean the whole way how this works is funny.

Owners keep creating these threats, that if consumer wants stuff cheaper, it means that they are driven out of business (so what?), and that's a bad thing because it lowers our domestic productivity, and also it lowers our tax money too, because most who can drive with volume are foreign businesses.

It is as if it is our fault that they do bad business and can't handle competition. It is as if the customer will lose at the end, if they have options and competition. Weird logic but I know my kid isn't going to be admitted to that school where these things are taught.

It is as if economy works exactly how someone says if their own interests are facing competition. It's basically threats without back up.

Just like the farmers do, they need subsidies worth of .. it's useless to say how many millions, we should talk about shares of budget here. In the whole EU as well. First, we need to support developing nations so that they can compete with us, help their business, and hope that they enter our markets and make money. After that, we give HUGE subsidies to our own producers, because they are all *****ing how they don't have a chance now and are drive out. This makes no sense to me. SO that's giving hand-outs to all parties, and the status remains exactly the same, even if we just didn't give any money at all. That's money wasted in my world.

And farmers say that ooh, if we can't dominate, which is different that 'we can't compete', which should be THEIR problem to work out, customers will lose. How do we lose? Because we can't be guaranteed safe food? And they guarantee that safe food exactly how? They poison the stuff even more, the only thing they can do is provide the most expensive tomatoes. Is that like an achievement?

Then they sell them forward, make a small profit, everyone wants to cut them a small slice, and we slap in taxes after every single act, it's no wonder the owners are like ****, how come this people come with their weird accents and can lower their prices so low??

They never had to worry about it, because everyone used the same way of doing business, but now when someone actually takes charge, they are all crying and trying to keep the prices high.

People of lower income will benefit getting necessities cheaper. We might lose some tax money, but hey, it gives us more consuming power, us lower income folks, so if they can consume more, they will consume more. It's not like they're going to sit on the extra 10 euros.

The overall problem is that lower to middle income households are not spending and/or investing. It's too risky, they'd rather sit on it. Keep the money on bank and we can guarantee there won't be much development anyway. And there are not many investors around, that's quite obvious. If people have more consuming power, they might be able to buy services, that will create more markets for service industry, which now is totally beyond ****ed, because there's not enough consuming power.

And what do we do? We blame the rich, because they sit on the money so we can't get it. No... the rich are actually owning stuff, they are investing, they're keeping it coming in, that's not sitting on it. Sure, they can afford to lose some, and poor people can't afford it so they are too afraid to even try out. But that's because everything goes to necessities, that are priced high.

So, why is it bad that few fat bastards are turned belly up because they can't do business with the rest of them? The way I see it, since if I put on a business and can't compete, I won't get subsidies, why should they? That's right, they shouldn't and they should die for it.

We'll make a bet.. I promise to be sad and taught a lesson if I like the situation less if we just let these bastards rot. And I lose. I'm willing to accept the risk. But if the situation has no effect on us, or it benefits us, they not only promise to die, we get to kill them.

[Ecthy]

oh my god

[Pekka]

Mein Gott!!

POWER POWER POWER!

[Dinner]

Originally posted by VetLegion
They're opening here this winter and the domestic retail chains are in panic never seen before. Competition is already stiff but Lidl made them all wet their pants, publish books that smear it, etc.

I can't wait. It's our European version of Wall-Mart I guess.

I imagine the local retailers in your area will do the same thing the retailers in the US do when Wal-Mart opens a store near them. They move up market. Wal-Mart is great at slashing prices to the lowest possible level and certain people want or need the cheapest version of stuff (mostly students, single mothers, and the elderly) but most people will pay a bit more if they can get higher quality.

The other stores end up saying "You want the cheapest crap then go to Wal-Wart but if you want something that lasts then come talk to me".

[Pekka]

Also, Lidl is hardly Wal-Mart. I don't know if Wal-Mart is doing a service to the people or hurting more.

But Lidl is definitely no Wal-Mart. Besides, Lidl can't even truly challenge the local shops here. Wal-Mart dominates. I don't want Lidl to dominate either. I want options to choose from.

Also Wal-Mart pretty much sells everything. Lidl generally just food.

[Meticulous Man]

Two friends of mine have worked at Lidl. Both of them say you never should buy anything from them. IIRC, when you sign Lidl's employment contract, you agree to having your clothes, closet and car ransacked at any time by the security guards while you are at work, and you agree to keeping secret anything you learn while working for Lidl (Lidl actually claims that this secrecy contract still is in force after you no longer work for them). My friend also said that the rates at which the cashiers scan the products' bar codes actually are monitored, and the rate which Lidl is striving for is something like 70 products per minute while the machine is active. I work part-time as a cashier myself and we haven't got anything like this so I can't say for sure how this works or whether it's true, but from what my friend said I gathered that the cashiers have to turn the machine off, wait for the customer's products to mass up at the end of the conveyor belt, and then turn it on and scan the bar codes as fast as they can. When you have a lunch pause, the products you buy must have separate receipts taped on them, signed by the store supervisor. The shifts are timed in a manner that minimizes the amount of wages the employees receive and IIRC there is an "inofficial" practice that every employee must be present 15 minutes before their shift actually starts. Overtime is said rarely or never to be paid for unless the employee specifically makes sure that this happens.

The friend of mine who worked at Lidl in Turku got fired during his probationary period. He said that the reason given was that he wasn't the kind of person Lidl wanted to have because he often didn't proceed according to the protocol. For example, he says, once he was caught by the supervisor while "processing a product from the wrong direction" (this sounds so revolting that I hope it isn't true). He was also said not to be fast enough when shelving products. After he got fired from Lidl, he has worked as a cashier for another company and neither he or his current employer seems to have had anything to complain about. The story of the other guy who worked for Lidl I don't know so much about, but I think he actually rose to be some kind of an assistant supervisor and left on his own terms after getting tired.

[Tattila the Hun]

They have good choclad. But I don't like the hurry one must be in to clear the cashier.

[Spiffor]

I haven't foound any big Lidl yet. All the Lidls I see are fairly small supermarkets with food products. You have all the categories of produce that you want, but you often only have one or two brands. In this aspect (plus the general cheapiness), Lidl is more reminiscent of Societ shops, and is nothing like Walmart. Walmarts are big and sell all kinds of stuff. Unlike Lidl.

[Pekka]

Aivo, I see nothing weird in any of those, except monitoring the scanning rate. It has to work fast there, but I don't know if monitoring is necessary, if the queue moves, it's fast enough I guess.

About what your friend had to endure in Turku, well, I don't know about that so I can't give any comments. Could have been unfair firing, those happens every day. Not that it's OK, just saying it's not Lidl-trademark.

[Ecthy]

Well Pekka, Lidl has a reputation for having extremely bad working conditions in Germany. Can't go into details as Aivo did, but what he mentioned certainly didn't surprise me.

Rumor has it they closed down a store when the employees were about to form a works council, an act that has long tradition in the German economy (the works council, not the closing down and firing)

[Pekka]

I never said that sounded like cool practices. I said it does not sound weird as in doesn't surprise me.

Hardly any of those things are illegal. Is it moral and right? Maybe not. But what some supervisors enforce and play is hardly the fault of Lidl. Unless it comes from the higher managerial level that yes, we must give crap to our employees.

And, what of those Aivo mentioned constitues as extremely bad working condition?

[Ecthy]

Pekka, if the company upper management had disagreed with the decision of the local management to close down the store, they would have intervened, no? This damaged Lidl reputation badly. It's also borderline illegal in Germany, us being teh commies when it comes to workers' rights (not as in Stalin commies but as in Marx commies).

What Aivo described sounds like a lot of pressure on the employees' shoulders, as opposed to recent findings about motivation at your workplace and stuff. It just sounds very harsh overall, can't help with productivity.

[Pekka]

Nice spinning. Being a cashier does not take lots of skills. SUre it must be tough as any other tough job is, however, as long as laws are abided, I see no problems personally. OF COURSE practices can be legal but still stupid and kind of inhumane, however, that is a problem of managment and their competency is at stake.

But if you want high salary, nice little office and flexible working hours, being a cashier just won't cut it. That's just a simple fact, and if I was the employer, I expect full cooperation within the agreement we have made, in which I agree to pay certain amount of salary and provide certain conditions (it's the law), and employee agrees to work within the range we agreed upon. Cashier is expected to work fast. Do you think it's the only place where you have to work fast all day long? it isn't, and there's lots of ****ty jobs like that.

But as long as there is probationary time, temps etc, I would, as an employer, find the suitable people. Of course within reason. Attitude problems? Out the door the same second if no excuse for a bad day. Can't work with the same pace everybody else can and because of that we are too slow? Sorry, we have to let you go or find something else to do in here that requires other kinds of attributes.

That said... as an employer, I would also do my best to meet the requirements of the employees as people, including their pay, working conditions etc. You can't replace qualified people who are happy to work for you.

I'm not too far off what you're saying, I'm just saying I'm on both sides, employee and employer, depends on the situation. I don't think anyone has permanent attachment to job if they themselves start breaking the agreement. That's what the contract is all meant for.

And no, I don't think employees should be treated like robots. But I understand fast working is required in some places. But fast is fast enough if it gets the work done on time. So in this case, there can be also 'work faster' when it doesn't do any good, that might be unnecessary.

And let's face it, these kind of jobs are not meant for everyone. In fact only few are suitable for it. But if it's permanent solution for someone who had other chances, I don't feel sorry for them at all. If they had bad luck and ended up their, it's a different story.