Which country has produce the best classical music?

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by DaShi


I'd imagine that Indian classical music has a lot to do with the origin of Hindu civilization.

Funnily enough , with the root of Indian classical music being the Sama Veda , yes , it does have a lot to do with the origins of Hindu civilisation . Even a stopped clock is right twice a day .

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by aneeshm
Our instruments are the most pleasing to the ear

To your ear, maybe.

Which instruments are you talking about, specifically. Is the Sitar a classical instrument or a modern one in this context?

[LordShiva]

Personally, I like the cannons in 1812 Overture

Pleasing to the ear, the heart, and the balls

[Dis]

austria

but seriously germany hands down. But nothing against Russia. I'm very impressed with their composers as well.

[SlowwHand]

SITAR AND ITS ORIGIN

In the western world the sitar is perhaps the most well known musical instrument of India. It's sound evokes thoughts and feelings of the sub-continent. It is believed to have evolved into its present form in the 1700's, during the collapse of the Moghul Empire, as a marriage between the Persian Setar and the South-Indian Vina, while using the characteristically resonant bridge of the Tampura.

It is clear that the sitar as we think of it today developed in the Indo-Pakistan subcontinent at the end of the Moghul era. It is also clear that it evolved from the Persian lutes that had been played in the Moghul courts for hundreds of years. The "Sangeet Sudarshana" states that the sitar was invented in the 18th century by a fakir named Amir Khusru (not the one who lived in 1300). Who was the 15th descendent of Naubat Khan, the son-in-law of Tansen. It is said that he developed this instrument from the Persian Sehtar. Amir Khusru's grandson Masit Khan was one of the most influential musicians in the development of the Sitar. He composed numerous slow gats in the dhrupad style of the day. This style is referred to as Masitkhani Gat. The Masitkhani gats were further popularized by his son, Bahadur Khan. Masit Khan was a resident of Delhi; therefore Masitkhani Gats are sometimes referred to as Dilli Ka Baaj. Raza Khan was also an important person in the development of sitar music. Raza Khan was also a descendent of Tansen and lived in Lucknow around 1800-1850. Raza Khan was also known as Ghulam Raza. He developed the fast gat known as Razakani gat. Amrit Sen and Rahim Sen are credited with modifying the tuning and stringing of the Sitar and introducing numerous new techniques to the instrument.

In recent times there exists two types of Sitars, with corresponding playing styles and sounds. The first is known as the Vilayat Khan style sitar, and the second is known as the Ravi Shankar style sitar. The V.K. style sitar is slightly smaller and has far less wood carving decoration than the R.S. style sitar. The R.S. style sitar often has a second small pumpkin attached near the top of the neck and two extra bass strings. V.K. style sitars do not have these bass strings but instead have one extra chickary (rhythmic accompaniment strings) string that allows for a fuller, more chordal chickary effect to be produced.

The Sitar's neck and face are made of Indian mahogany and its round back/base is of a dried pumpkin. Although the Sitar has a minimum of eighteen strings, it generally has just one main playing string. The remaining strings provide it's ethereal resonance and/or resonance plus rhythmic accompaniment. The Sitar has two separate bridges, one upper, and one lower. The upper contains the playing string(s) and the chickary strings (used for rhythmic and drone accompaniment). The lower bridge usually has about twelve tarif (sympathetic) strings, which are very fine and are tuned to the notes of the Raga (scale) being played. These strings, when tuned accurately, will resonate without being touched when a corresponding note is played on the upper main string, thus giving the sitar a natural reverb effect. This effect is enhanced by the structure of the bridge. Copied from the ancient tampura (a background drone instrument used primarily to accompany vocal music) the Sitar's bridge is made of soft deer-horn and is flat on top and is shaped in such a way as to allow the strings to gently buzz against the flat bridge surface. This effect is called jawari.
The Sitar is a fretted instrument but the frets (metal bars) are tied on loosely enough to be slightly moved or tuned. The tuning of the frets is another feature that sets the sitar apart from western instruments. The Sitar is played in the natural or untempered tuning system. Many western instruments such as the guitar and the piano are designed to be played in the equal-tempered tuning system that is a modern invention without which the chordal harmony and 12 keys of western music would be impossible to achieve from a single instrument. The disadvantage of the tempered system is that it is microscopically out of tune. The Ancient, Natural, or untempered tuning system retains the perfect or natural tuning of each interval. It is believed that music played in the Natural tuning system has a profoundly harmonizing effect on listeners.

The most striking feature of the Sitar's playing technique is it's main strings capacity for being pulled or bent. On one fret the main string can be pulled downward at least a fourth; for example from C to G. This particular feature has only been available during the last fifty years - since steel strings have been made with enough strength to withstand such tension. This pulling capacity allows the instrument to accurately emulate the gliding effect of vocal music.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


To your ear, maybe.

Which instruments are you talking about, specifically. Is the Sitar a classical instrument or a modern one in this context?

The sitar , veena , flute , and tabla are all far less jarring than their western equivalents .

[Cort Haus]

I gather she's playing a veena. Though I do think the extra arms are wasted. She should be playing an instrument especially designed for a four-armed goddess.

Listening to this clip, I wouldn't say it sounded tonally less 'jarring' than an equivalent western stringed instrument, but one little clip isn't much to go on, as a lot depends on the composition and musician, as well as the physics of the instrument.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by SlowwHand

the Sitar's bridge is made of soft deer-horn and is flat on top and is shaped in such a way as to allow the strings to gently buzz against the flat bridge surface. This effect is called jawari.

I like a bit of fret-buzz myself, on a bass. Jawari is a better word.

[LordShiva]

Among the most talented classical musicians I know (both Indian and Western), the consensus seems to be that Indian classical music and its instruments score higher in terms of the skill and musical dexterity that the musicians are required, and do generally, display, but that Western musicians are much better prepared to play as part of large groups. For instance, we have no symphonies in Indian classical music - recitals can often have just one or two instruments, and usually top out at 4-5, plus one or two vocalists. So they don't have that feeling of complete aural immersion that large symphonies and chorus concerts lend.

[VetLegion]

Eeer... I know squat about music, but I've seen some documentary about harmony in music and it went along the lines that it's a western invention and that easties (Chinese, Japanese, don't know about India) didn't even have the thing until it was imported (very late), so their native music is unharmonic and thus not very pleasing to the ear.

Comments?

Can western classical music thus even be compared to other musics (and can music go in plural, I wonder?)?

[SlowwHand]

I give you Yoko Ono as evidence.

[LordShiva]

And this person.

[SlowwHand]

DAMN, Shiva.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Can western classical music thus even be compared to other musics (and can music go in plural, I wonder?)?

Probably not. They use different rules, which different listeners become accustomed to.

IMO western classical music tried to break its own harmonic rules in the 20th century which makes it unlistenable for me. I'm not saying that rules can't be broken, just that that particular attempt didn't work for me.

[Dr Strangelove]

I think it would be more fair to say that the Italian composers have been the best at opera, the Russian composers the best at ballet and the Germans composers the best at symphonic classical music.

The English have their unsurpassed theater and the French have produced the finest painters to have ever picked up a brush.

Yet modern American artists in the fields of music and cinema have out-earned all the rest combined many times over.