Disturbing Christian material . . . . . . . .

[Jon Miller]

It goes with you not understanding Christian culture and Christianity.

JM

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Yeah, I just read the first two bolded bits and then decided his post was stupid.

JM

Actually , the bolded bits follow a pattern . If you'll read through them carefully , you'll realise that someone who disagrees with the authorities , but has been sent to the school by orthodox Christian parents , will be totally stifled by the school atmosphere . That's the point I'm trying to convey through the bolded bits ( and the explanations of [1] and [2] later ) - it might seem harmless , but it isn't . It leads to what amounts to indoctrination and , more seriously , intimidation .


A guy from this school , who was initially a fundie Christian , went on to lose his faith and made the documentary "The God Who Wasn't There" . In it he claims that he was told that if he did not accepe Jesus as the saviour , or if he doubted the Holy Spirit , then he would be eternally damned to the tortures of hell . And he was told this by his teachers in school . Does this not amount to indoctrination by intimidation ? It seems difficult to believe that something so perverse - scaring a small child with horrible visions of hell - could be compatible with Christian culture you mention . Maybe I don't understand it . If I don't , then I need your help . How exactly are these scare tactics justified ?

[Jon Miller]

Basically it looks like the same sort of thing you would see in a Christian Highschool here in the US.

JM

[SlowwHand]

All you have to do is believe in God, creator of all things.

I'd rather you not say things like "Christian parents". It serves to imply all Christians are something, and is no better than generalizing about Jews, Muslims, or anything else.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by aneeshm


Actually , the bolded bits follow a pattern . If you'll read through them carefully , you'll realise that someone who disagrees with the authorities , but has been sent to the school by Christian parents , will be totally stifled by the school atmosphere . That's the point I'm trying to convey through the bolded bits ( and the explanations of [1] and [2] later ) - it might seem harmless , but it isn't . It leads to what amounts to indoctrination and , more seriously , intimidation .


A guy from this school , who was initially a fundie Christian , went on to lose his faith and made the documentary "The God Who Wasn't There" . In it he claims that he was told that if he did not accepe Jesus as the saviour , or if he doubted the Holy Spirit , then he would be eternally damned to the tortures of hell . And he was told this by his teachers in school . Does this not amount to indoctrination by intimidation ?

I have read all the bolded bits now, and my position remains the same. The goal of Christian schools is to educate Christians.. others who go might feel a bit uncomfortable.

And ever heard of fire and brimstone preaching? It is fairly common among some types of Christians, and has the idea of eternally damned to tortures in hell.

Once more, common, but not ubiquitous.

Jon Miller

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by SlowwHand

I'd rather you not say things like "Christian parents". It serves to imply all Christians are something, and is no better than generalizing about Jews, Muslims, or anything else.

My mistake . I should have put "orthodox" before that . I'll correct it ,

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


I have read all the bolded bits now, and my position remains the same. The goal of Christian schools is to educate Christians.. others who go might feel a bit uncomfortable.

And ever heard of fire and brimstone preaching? It is fairly common among some types of Christians, and has the idea of eternally damned to tortures in hell.

Once more, common, but not ubiquitous.

Jon Miller

So are you telling me that filling a small child's head with hellish imagery , of using scare tactics on children in the name of faith , is justified ? That intimidation is justified ? I can understand an adult preacher preaching to an adult audience - they are expected to have the maturity to make their own decisions - but for children ?

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
All you have to do is believe in God, creator of all things.

I'd rather you not say things like "Christian parents". It serves to imply all Christians are something, and is no better than generalizing about Jews, Muslims, or anything else.

And this is Sloww's Christianity.

One basic thing to learn about Christianity is it comes in all sorts of forms.

What is generally called Christianity, is Traditional Pauline Christianity, which is based the NT. Additionally, there are other groups, the largest currently being the Jehova's Witnesses (at least in the US), which have other beleifs, but still call themselves Christian*.

JM
*to my knowledge Jehova's Wintnesses are Arians (Spelling?), ie, they don't believe that Christ was divine (which, based upon what is traditionally called Christianity, makes them no more Christian than Muslims).

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by aneeshm


My mistake . I should have put "orthodox" before that . I'll correct it ,

There is a lot of difference among 'orthodox' as well. I would say that you couldn't even say 'fundamentalist' and get something that clearly fell under your example.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by aneeshm


So are you telling me that filling a small child's head with hellish imagery , of using scare tactics on children in the name of faith , is justified ? That intimidation is justified ? I can understand an adult preacher preaching to an adult audience - they are expected to have the maturity to make their own decisions - but for children ?

Are you telling me that people shouldn't say what they beleive?

Now I, personally, disagree with them. But it is a fairly common belief, and if you believe it, wouldn't you be a right bastard not to tell other people? Including children?

JM

[snoopy369]

That wouldn't improve anything. You're implying that 'all' of some group do something - that's just wrong, period. I could say that all Hindus hate muslims, and be wrong; I could say that all orthodox hindus hate muslims, and be equally wrong.

(Btw, 'orthodox' does not mean the same thing when put in front of 'christian' as it does for other religions ... 'Orthodox' denotes a few particular branches of christianity, Russian and Greek Orthodox primairly, and does not mean 'those who follow the rules strictly' that it would for other religions.)

Anyhow, the point is, this school is pretty much teaching what it's there to teach - the christian religion. If you don't want a christian education, don't go to a christian school ...

Perhaps you're complaining that children don't have the right to choose their own school or religion? That's a rather different question, and applies pretty equally to all religions that I'm aware of, certainly Hinduism at least as much as Christianity. Well, every religion other than OzzyKPism...

[SlowwHand]

It's like saying "All bastards are named Ming".
You know that can't be right.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by snoopy369

Anyhow, the point is, this school is pretty much teaching what it's there to teach - the christian religion. If you don't want a christian education, don't go to a christian school ...

Just because I know it will come up, you can replace the bolded bit as their interpretation of the Christian religion.

I know that there are some 'fundamentalist' schools I would send my child to (if I had one). And there are some 'fundamentalist' schools that I would not send my child to (if I had one).

In general, if you aren't Christian, I would say that you would have issues with what your child is being taught in a 'fundamentalist' school.

JM
(as far as it goes, I know many atheists who are happy with education received/given at Catholic school)

[Japher]

It's like saying "All bastards are named Ming".
You know that can't be right.

Yeah, some are named Sloww too.

[snoopy369]

I prefer to leave 'christian' as the generic term as this could refer to many schools

Catholic schools aren't usually very preachy, in fact. They teach religion, but in a way that if you're atheist you could see it as history class...