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**Zkribbler** · July 19, 2006, 19:44

Originally posted by asleepathewheel

Oh, they've already attempted to overturn it? I didn't know that, these things move faster than I would have thought.

The veto was today.
There's already been some comparision with the Senate's vote passing the bill with what is needed to override. That's probably what Ben heard.

**DinoDoc** · July 19, 2006, 19:48

/me hopes he likes the feel of the veto pen and decides to use it on bills that need it more

**Solver** · July 19, 2006, 19:52

Bush

His opposition to stem-cell research is actually one of my biggest gripes with him. Given how I'm not in the US, so don't know much of domestic things, this might be his decision that I dislike the most.

**DanS** · July 19, 2006, 20:10

Good for Bush.

If y'all want to fund embryonic stem cell research, then go ahead. But not on my dime.

**Kuciwalker** · July 19, 2006, 20:34

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
The real choice is that there are other much better options, if you can't look after these kids you can give them to someone else who would rather look after them then give them up for experimentation. I can't see why this would be considered a bad solution.

No one's going to take them.

**Kuciwalker** · July 19, 2006, 20:41

Originally posted by DanS
Good for Bush.

If y'all want to fund embryonic stem cell research, then go ahead. But not on my dime.

BS.

1) It's highly speculative research. This is exactly the kind the federal government is supposed to fund.

2) With its huge funding for the sciences, they've sort of cornered the market. A ban on federal funding of stem cell research makes it really difficult for ANY researcher to do it.

**DanS** · July 19, 2006, 20:47

(1) I don't think it's right for the gov't to coerce a good portion of the people to fund something elective that they think is unethical.

(2) Hasn't stopped CA from doing so. Even if it did, that's not a bad thing IMO... I think your argument is a bad one.

**Drake Tungsten** · July 19, 2006, 20:48

Anyone care to justify this?

I don't agree with Bush on this, but it's hard to see why some of you are so outraged. This veto didn't come out of left field; Bush made his position on stem-cell research pretty clear several years ago, a position that is hardly a radical one.

**snoopy369** · July 19, 2006, 21:01

Originally posted by DanS
(1) I don't think it's right for the gov't to coerce a good portion of the people to fund something elective that they think is unethical.

This is the main sticking point here, folks. A large portion of the country, around 40%, fervently disagree with this research. They consider it murder.

You may disagree with this. Heck, I do. But, honestly, I don't know that the government should force 40% of its people to fund murder... Y'all (the left) are whining about going to war, yet over half of america (at the start, anyway) supported us going there, and up until not long ago still did. And that's much more morally ambiguous (to you all) than straight up murder...

Ultimately there has to be some compromise somewhere here. Not sure where that's going to be, though ... but the fact that y'all dismiss this as 'fundamentalist' is your mistake, and proof of your selfish natures here. It's easy to dismiss another's argument as 'fundamentalist'; much harder, is to actually accept that the other believes their argument, and accept their right to hold beliefs different to that of your own. Forcing an ethical position on others is something I hope our government never does - and to the extent that the right does it [generally far more, of course] I abhor it. Turning around and doing so yourself is no better than what they do.

**Lancer** · July 19, 2006, 21:24

#96

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I think Poly and its mods are alright

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Indian civilization consists of nothing but some lower caste people who crap on the streets and eat nan all day and some higher caste people who are fat, play with gemstones, ride on elephants and eat curry all day." - Ecthy

spartak

King

Dec 2000
time: 20:17

18-08-2006 19:49 #97

Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

creep

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(+1)

Lancer

Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 20:17

18-08-2006 19:53 #98

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quote:
Originally posted by LordShiva
I think Poly and its mods are alright

Dolores loves your avatar LS. Definately cool.

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Ming

Chief Minion
Mingapulco - CST
Jan 1970
time: 14:17

18-08-2006 19:59 #99

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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
[quote]
So regarding this thread, I'm very leary of heaping scorn on Locutus, as I don't know what Saturday night drunken Ming trolling lies behind his evident frustration. Perhaps none...

Again... what' with the drinking crap. You seem to be the one with a drinking problem, and have posted many drunken threads.

quote:

People wondered why I took it upon myself to leave with so little reason. Believe me, there was PLENTY of reason. My fault some of it. I trolled Ming right back. I heard of his drinking and trolling on more than just the one occasion that he got his mod powers removed and noticed a corolation to my thread deletions and nasty Ming PMs.

Gee, the only occasion was an Apolyton Party with brought about a single night now known as the nine heads of Ming... I don't deny that we had fun that night and were punished like anybody else. However, your continual lies about additional drinking are just pure fantasy.

And, the deletions of your threads and PMs is due exclusively to your spamming and insulting posts and trolling. Maybe you should take responsibility for your actions instead of blaming somebody else.

quote:

So, getting no justice from the admins I trolled him right back... so I'd have more threads deleted.

Again, you like to lie and claim their is a correlation between the two events. The facts are simple, you spam and troll, threads get deleted. You don't, then they don't. But again, feel free to continue trying to act like a victim.

quote:

So I finally had enough and now my forum of choice is MZO. I'm enjoying myself there more than I have done for years here. Making the same threads I made here and NOT ONE has been deleted.

Different sites have different rules... You seem to want to think this is proof that you are right... it's only proof that rules vary.

quote:

So, wtf am I doing here? For years I've brought my case to Markos and Dan. Nothing! Now here in this thread is an example that all is not right at Poly and Ming is up to his scrawny neck in it. So, I'm back to once again raise my case to Markos who might use this occasion to pull his head out of his butt, and DanQ, who might just refocus on what's really doing in his site. I'm back momentarily because of the years of frustration and this
evident oportunity to shed some light.

Yeah... pretty typical, you come back and insult the owners with the above words, and try to act like a poor victim... Just more trolling.

quote:

I haven't replied to Markos direct in this thread because I've given up hope in our communications over the years and will let the demise of Poly do the direct talking. Something he may be more interested in listening to, or not, whatever. Besides I get worked up and then am not particularly good at expressing myself.

Maybe if you were telling people they had their heads up their butts they might respond.

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Lancer

Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 20:17

18-08-2006 20:03 #100

Put an end to popups!

Not gonna do this anymore.

The point is made Ming, and you've made it. Poly is a fraction of what it was.

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LordShiva

King
of Kings
Aug 2002
time: 15:17

18-08-2006 20:06 #101

Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
Dolores loves your avatar LS. Definately cool.

You should get a banana avatar, too. That way, you're expected to spam

__________________
"Let's face it, India got nothing culture-wise.

Indian civilization consists of nothing but some lower caste people who crap on the streets and eat nan all day and some higher caste people who are fat, play with gemstones, ride on elephants and eat curry all day." - Ecthy

Ming

Chief Minion
Mingapulco - CST
Jan 1970
time: 14:17

18-08-2006 20:07 #102

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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer

Not gonna do this anymore.

You've said that before.

I guess it's just another one of your many lies that you keep telling... hoping that maybe people will believe you.

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Contact Ming or sending me a Private Message works the best.
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Keep on Civin'

Lancer

Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 20:17

18-08-2006 20:08 #103

Put an end to popups!

I'm not going to get trolled by you ever again, but nice try.

__________________
The floggings will continue until morale improves.
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(")_(") Bunny UNION!

Lancer

Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 20:17

18-08-2006 20:09 #104

Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by LordShiva

You should get a banana avatar, too. That way, you're expected to spam

If I knew how I would.

__________________
The floggings will continue until morale improves.
(\__/) Proud to be the friend
(='.'=) of "a liberal weenie".
(")_(") Bunny UNION!

Lancer

Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 20:17

18-08-2006 20:16 #105

Remove this text

Ming wrote on 30-07-2006 01:44:
"You will act civil and stop your spam.

If you really want to be a member of this community... fine. If you just want to continue acting like an ass... you will be restricted.

Enough of your games.

And if you don't respond saying you agree and that you will stop your foolish games, you will get restricted until you do."

Ming, you're so big on doing what you say you're going to do...well?

**snoopy369** · July 19, 2006, 21:26

No.

**Lancer** · July 19, 2006, 21:28

So first off, non Americans shouldn't be bothered. They can ask their governments to fund this research with their taxes.

**RoboCon** · July 19, 2006, 21:28

Stem cells are always single-minded, as your quote alludes to. But to think that a pocket veto is a good option is naive and dangerous. Iraq must be swept away. No way there should be disbanded was probably being an Ivy League graduate, he loves america and obviously, he thinks the ethics committee might be missing out on bail after they are convicted of treason.

**snoopy369** · July 19, 2006, 21:30

**Geronimo** · July 19, 2006, 21:48

It's stupid and pointless since his decision does nothing to change the number of embryos that are killed or are allowed to die. It's basically stopping research involving cadavers since these embryos will be immediately destroyed in any event. The research would have simply provided an alternative to destruction.

Fortunately adult stem cell research is probably getting more money as a result of this. In the long run even if everybody in the world thought medical use of such embryos was acceptable the adult stem cell research would likely still be more useful. Adult stem cells allow the production of stem cells from the patient. Even though embryonic stem cells have a drastically reduced set of rejection issues as compared to other allogeneic tissue sources they still can't compare with autologous tissue sources.

Due to the limited overall funding for the sciences regardless of whether Bush vetoed this or not and due to the greater funding embryonic stem cell related research will likely receive abroad as an indirect result of this veto I doubt there will be any real loss to science or medical progress overall from this particular Bush stupidity.

Announcement

Bush vetoes Stem Cell Research

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