Somalia, what's the answer?

[Dr Strangelove]

WHy not just blockade and isolate Somalia until it collapses? We could lend support to the Ethiopeans and Kenyans to bolster their borders and put a few frigates off the coast to seal the sea.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
WHy not just blockade and isolate Somalia until it collapses? .

It already has....years ago.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
WHy not just blockade and isolate Somalia until it collapses?

The current situation is pretty much due to the fact that Somalia has already collapsed.

[Mercator]

Originally posted by techumseh
BHD was released on January 18, 2002, the US attacked Iraq in March of 2003, so the movie was released a year and a bit before.

It premiered in the US one month earlier, and I'm pretty sure it was filmed before 9/11.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by techumseh
@Darius871, BHD was released on January 18, 2002, the US attacked Iraq in March of 2003, so the movie was released a year and a bit before.

It was first released in late December 2001 on the coasts, with general release in January. Even IF we were to ignore the fact that the script was completed by October 2000 and ALL filming was completed well before September 11, in any event there was still no concerted PR effort wrt Iraq until the summer of 2002 (well after BHD had been released). If there seemed to be any 'intention' other than to accurately portray a historical event, then you saw what you wanted to see.

Edit: in fact, countless interviews with the director, producers, and stars tend to go against your claim. For just one example:

"But in the end," says [Director Ridley Scott], "are the obvious questions about whether or not the United States had a right to be in Somalia. And I think that when there's a humanitarian issue on the baseline, the answer is yes... yes ... and yes. Somebody's got to go in and do it, and it really falls at the feet of the U. S. because of the country's weight, prestige and power.

http://www.cinema.com/articles/732/b...on-notes.phtml

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
This is a "war" we can win using blue jeans, rock & roll, MP3 players, Hollywood movies and the internet. It's a war we can win using freedom and prosperity as lures because al-Qaeda's bloodsoaked manifesto is one of hatred and poverty.

Lap dances,beer, and so on did little to affect another certain group right here in the US.

But more to the point, the mullahs/imams/what have you control a great deal. If their "milita" kills people who have such articles, they won't make all that much headway.

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Darius871


It was first released in late December 2001 on the coasts, with general release in January. Even IF we were to ignore the fact that the script was completed by October 2000 and ALL filming was completed well before September 11, in any event there was still no concerted PR effort wrt Iraq until the summer of 2002 (well after BHD had been released). If there seemed to be any 'intention' other than to accurately portray a historical event, then you saw what you wanted to see.

Edit: in fact, countless interviews with the director, producers, and stars tend to go against your claim. For just one example:

Looks like I was blowing smoke! Oh well, there's a first time for everything!

[Darius871]

[Joseph]

Originally posted by techumseh
I may have misinterpreted the movie, but it seemed to me to be a warning. I didn't know the US military had a veto over it's contents, or that others had seen it as pro-US. I thought that since the US got a bloody nose from an ill-advised military action and had to pull out of the country as a result was the point.

@Geronimo, it was unauthorized by higher authorities. The US was there at the UN's request to oversee the distribution of food aid. The local commander on the ground decided on his own authority to organize a raid to capture a local warlord.

@Darius871, BHD was released on January 18, 2002, the US attacked Iraq in March of 2003, so the movie was released a year and a bit before.

it was Clinton who allow the attack. Bush 1 would not do it, so they waited until Clinton was the boss.

[Zkribbler]

BHD was our attack, not theirs. We were trying to capture a warlord.

[Ecthy]

I think Strangelove was being sarcastic.

[St Leo]

Just let Somalia be. Islamic militias took over because life under warlords was hell. They'll lighten up in a generation or two. No rush.

Fundies tend to burn out without a compelling reason to stay a a fundy. Cromwell's Puritan England banned dancing and singing. Didn't last.

Meh.

[Lancer]

Great strategy, but it doesn't make for much of a thread.

I say we send in NATO!

[Spiffor]

A good read, for those interested


From the BBC

Life under Somalia's Islamists
By Mohamed Olad Hassan
BBC News, Mogadishu

For 15 years, Mayow Abdalla has been afraid to leave his house.

Mr Abdalla, a Somali of Yemeni origin who lives in the old district of Hamar-weyne in Mogadishu, had his own electronics shop until the Siad Barre regime fell in 1991, and the warlords took over.

"I am jobless but my brothers in Europe and Saudi Arabia send me money," he says.

"Some of my money was going directly into the hands of a militiaman, who told me he was providing security for my house, my six children, my wife and myself - on his own initiative."

"Now the guy has left, fearing that the Islamic courts would arrest him for his wrongdoings and I am planning to open a small shop outside my house."

Since the Union of Islamic Courts (UIC) seized control of Mogadishu on 5 June, life in Mogadishu is getting better, and business people are optimistic.

Less extortion

There are far fewer check-points, where gunmen used to extort money from passing motorists and commercial vehicles.

The UIC gunmen do operate road blocks but they do not demand payment from civilians.

Now, thank God, I am with my family and giving up all my bad habits
Salad Ga'al, former fighter

As a result food prices have dropped.

One kilogramme of rice used to cost 9,500 Somali shillings (65 US cents) but the price is now 3,500 shillings.

Camel meat has also fallen from 30,000 shillings per kilo, to 22,000.

"We no longer hire security militia for our commodities and we don't pay militia check-points - that is why the goods are still at their normal prices," said businessman Abdikarin Abukar Fodare.

Refugees

The cautious optimism extends even to the city's refugee camps.

Safiya Hassan, who lives in one of the camps, earns a little money by washing clothes and utensils and uses it to support her four children and her sick husband, Januune.

"Nothing has changed in our life but it did change for others," she says.

"So if the life of other people in the city changes, ours also changes, because I depend on them via my work and God's destiny."

The defeat of the warlords has also brought relief to those who were recruited to fight with them.

"My family was the gunmen, my bed was on the battle-wagons and the narcotic leaves, khat, was my favourite thing," says Salad Ga'al, a teenage boy who served six years in the militia.

"Now, thank God, I am with my family and giving up all my bad habits," he said.

"I have to create a new life and go to school for my future."

Mobile phones

If you go around the city and ask people about the changes in Mogadishu, many would first tell you about how things are more secure, however fragile the security may seem.

Car drivers and owners tell you they have no fear of robbery because there is no shelter for the perpetrators under the rule of Islamic courts.

Those who have mobile phones are happy that now they can answer their calls anywhere.

But with the young Islamic militia opposed to dancing, television and music, residents fear the future may turn into something like Afghanistan under the Taleban.

Being Muslims, most residents are reluctant to reject the idea of Islamic rule. Yet they are not happy with what they see as increasing radicalism in the city.

Robbers are arrested every day and are being put in jail.

In the 1990s, the first Islamic courts amputated the hands of thieves and stoned to death murderers and rapists.

One of the UIC's leaders, Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Ahmed, say it is not possible to enforce such Islamic punishments now but he says Sharia should become Somalia's law in the future.

Guns

The biggest worry is the weapons which are still in the hands of clan-based militia and ordinary Somalis.

Piles of AK-47 rifles and ammunition are still on sale at the Irtokte weapons market.

Sa'id Mo'alin Kulow, a businessman at the market, says supplies of weapons from Yemen and Eritrea are still being smuggled into the bazaar despite the Islamic courts taking control.

"But previously Ethiopia was among the suppliers," he says.

Many Somalis and the transitional government would prefer the deployment of foreign troops in the country to disarm the militia, because the government is weak and no clan militia wants to hand their weapons to another clan.

The regional body, Igad, has promised to send troops, but the Islamic courts strongly oppose such a deployment and have called for war against foreign troops.

But further fighting is the last thing most Somalis want - they want to be left alone for the first time in 15 years to get on with the business of earning enough money to feed their families.

[TCO]

My last gf's brother and my USNA classmate died over there.