Israeli aircraft strike Palestinian PM’s office

[GePap]

Originally posted by notyoueither
How do you jive that with the existance of Israel?

As I satetd, they opose Israel exiting within palestine. I think that is the third time I say it. The issue is that if Israel were in Uganda, they would not give a **** about it.

[GePap]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Founding statement. Isn't the Koran a founding statement, that's been bastardized by militants?

No, since Hamas is a specific political organization with specific (Islamic State in Palestine) aims. That means its founding statement and charter will be different from say that of the Taliban, since the conditions in Palestine and Afghanistan are distinct.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by GePap


As I satetd, they opose Israel exiting within palestine. I think that is the third time I say it. The issue is that if Israel were in Uganda, they would not give a **** about it.

Well then I think we have a problem, don't we?

You think a government that wants to extinguish another state should have any support?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by GePap


I think I linked to it, oh, look, yes.

Certainly the language is harsh and anti-semitic> of course, read the whole thing, and you see that they again have no "global" aims. Its a nationalist movement inherently. Which is odd and somewhat contradictory since one would think Islam would supersede Nationalism, but I guess that isn;t true for Hamas.

You mean, aside from being a bunch of end of the world fanatics?

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

It sure sounds to me like they will be willing to put aside the Jihad they have taken up, or not.

[notyoueither]

If that sort of crap were sited by any group outside the Muslim world, they would be dismissed out of hand, and universally condemned by anyone with an ounce of sense.

But apparently, it's OK for Arabs, and Palestinians, to continue to live in the 10th century.

[Admiral]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Well then I think we have a problem, don't we?

You think a government that wants to extinguish another state should have any support?

Its not a matter of support. Its a matter of A) recognizing that Hamas is a product of the conditions in which it developed B) recognizing that certain political groups in Israel are as extreme as Hamas, and that certain political groups in Palestine are less extreme than Hamas C) Just generally being pragmatic. Anyone looking at the Israel-Palestine conflict through the lens of ideology will be unable to make a substantive contribution to the discussion.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Admiral
Anyone looking at the Israel-Palestine conflict through the lens of ideology will be unable to make a substantive contribution to the discussion.

You've just described the current government of the Palestinians.

[Admiral]

Originally posted by notyoueither


You've just described the current government of the Palestinians.

Definitely. But not much more so than elements of the Israeli government.

[notyoueither]

Yeah, right.

[Admiral]

The settler movement is predicated upon the belief that the entirety of the Occupied Territories are rightfully Israel's. Do you deny that the settler movement has at least some support in the Knesset?

[Vesayen]

There is a big difference between a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION BEING THE GOVERMENT OF THE PALESTINIANS and the settler movement having some support in the Knesset. Besides the obvious difference that one wants to commit genocide for Alah, the Israeli's have dismantled some settlements and have basically stopped the creation of new ones.

[Admiral]

I do not deny that the current government of Palestine is more extreme than the current government of Israel. But, and leaving aside your continued mischaracterization of Hamas and the actions of the Israeli government, the Israeli government has been incredibly stupid. Before Hamas won the election, it as an organization had nothing to lose, and everything to gain, by being as extremist as possible. Once they won that election, they should have had something to lose. But when Israel immediately refused to recognize Hamas' role in the government, Israel denied Hamas the responsibility of being a government. Of course Hamas is still waging a low-level terror campaign against Israel. If Hamas didn't, it would no longer hold any power.

[General Ludd]

genocide genocide genocide LOL

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Admiral
The settler movement is predicated upon the belief that the entirety of the Occupied Territories are rightfully Israel's. Do you deny that the settler movement has at least some support in the Knesset?

Actually, the government has torn down settlements and forcefully evicted settlers who went too far.

And they are prepared to do it again.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Admiral
I do not deny that the current government of Palestine is more extreme than the current government of Israel. But, and leaving aside your continued mischaracterization of Hamas and the actions of the Israeli government, the Israeli government has been incredibly stupid. Before Hamas won the election, it as an organization had nothing to lose, and everything to gain, by being as extremist as possible. Once they won that election, they should have had something to lose. But when Israel immediately refused to recognize Hamas' role in the government, Israel denied Hamas the responsibility of being a government. Of course Hamas is still waging a low-level terror campaign against Israel. If Hamas didn't, it would no longer hold any power.

And there's the problem.

Expecting a government to do business with an organization that is carrying on any type of terror campaign, low leverl or not.

Tell me, how much patience did the govt of the US have for the Taliban when they merely sheltered the terrorists?

To hear you tell it, the US should be happy and accept it when and if AQ is elected to the government of a country.

Can you see the problem with that?