Victory in Iraq Nears

[Sava]

Originally posted by Pekka
And you want to give time and space to insurgents and think they are for peace? Man, I think there is this bridge.. no fool me twice.. anyway, the message is, don't believe what they are trying to sell you.

If they are so beaten now that they want peace, then we should strike them now and keep fighting. Or why would they want peace? I say they're weak now.

When can the coalition troops go home? When they can guarantee insurgents won't take over once they leave. And no, Iraqi army can't hold them down now or in the next 2 years.

Strike them now, kill all you can get buffet is open.

You really don't understand the enemy.

The "insurgents" are not a force that is going to "take over" if we leave. They are only there because we are there. You don't understand the purpose of jihad do you? They are not going to try to occupy Iraq like a military force would if we leave. They don't have the capability, nor the numbers to do so.

Their goal is just to drive us out of their land. Pure and simple. It doesn't matter if it's Iraq, Iran, or anywhere else in the region. We leave, most of them go home. For them, jihad is like their calling in life. When any occupying force is in their land, they go there and fight them... at least, that is the motivation for the foreign elements.

The Sunni's will continue to try to take control of the government if we leave, but that is more of an internal Iraqi problem that a trained Iraqi security force will have to deal with. The foreign insurgent forces in Iraq won't continue to fight with the Sunni's if we leave.

It would be best to leave Iraq as soon as possible... and hell, probably even continue to train Iraqi security forces somewhere else, outside Iraq. Why can't that be done?

I'm hearing a lot of opinions on this matter from people who just don't understand the enemy we are facing. And that is one of the most important things in war... understanding your enemy.

[Pekka]

"You really don't understand the enemy."

And you do?

You seem to be unable to notice that the enemy is not simple, meaning that there are different types of groups, agendas and motivations. Example: Chechnya.

You claim to understand the mental psyche of the enemy, yet you play like it's simple, there's only one enemy. Sure, there's lots of those who want the coalition forces out and that's it, no other agendas. But that's only one part of the group. It leaves the country in inner power struggle for sure and if you think the Iraqi army will be victorious then I find it weird.

They have agreed to cease hostilities? Where I come from, the term is to surrender, not a cease fire. And if they don't agree to surrender and have the country, they'll keep attacking civilians? Sounds like peaceful groups to me. These cease fire talking people are only talking on behalf of themselves. If they don't want to fight, good, so we don't have to worry about them but the ones who do want to fight.

Or is this like one of them rebel cease fires where they basically call it off, start it again, call if off, start it again... unless they have the power to talk for the whole movement, they shouldn't be even considered to be a voice. If they want to stop fighting, they can do that already. There's Iraqi army they can join if they want to fight the civilian terrorizing groups. Instead they have chosen not to.

I have no mercy for these poor bastards unless they put guns down without any conditions. If they want peace, they can have peace. I reckon they're not getting much fighting if they stop it. The only reason why they would pull this kind of thing out is because they want to regroup a little. Bring down the sword.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Demonrat

Clever! Might even be better than the repugs! You, sir, are advancing political unity in America! Feel proud, brother.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Lorizael




Clever! Might even be better than the repugs! You, sir, are advancing political unity in America! Feel proud, brother.

Ahh that ones been around forever.

[Theseus]

1. Pekka is right: Various Islamic fundamentalist groups will continue to f*ck with us (i.e, Western economic powers) as well as anyone who is not "them"... they need to be taught that terror is not an acceptable answer. Period.

2. Actually, Berzerker, the neo-con vision most likely does include a permanent base somewhere in the Middle East. Iraq, for all the current troubles, is an excellent alternative, especially compared to small countries like Kuwait... consider the prospect as the modern equivalent of establishing regional power projection in Germany, South Korea, Japan, Philippines, etc. (BTW, the "Theseo-con" vision is in complete agreement!)

[Pekka]

What I'm saying is, of course peace is always acceptable. If you want to cease fire and put hostilities on a pause, great, do it.

If the groups that have more fundamentalist view at things wants to keep fighting, which they most likely do, then the best option to do is join the iraqi forces to fight them. Become part of the solution. Not part of the problem. If you're not running around setting buildings on fire, no one will chase you for it. So there is nothing to negotiate about in that regard.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Yey insurgents who have more US interests in mind than Demonrats.


Insurgent plan. Pull out troops in 24 months and we (insurgents) stop fighting.

Demonrat plan. Pull out troops within 18 months with no assurances of ceased hostilities.

I'm sure they all have our interests at heart. If he's still around, maybe the insurgents could hire Le Duc Tho as their chief negotiator.

Insurgent plan. Give us time to build, arm, resupply, recruit, and we'll play ball if you ignore us doing the above and promise to kick out the foreign troops propping up your lackey government. Meanwhile, we're 11 out of perhaps hundreds of insurgent groups/cells/whatevers, and out members are pretty much free to do what they want.

Democrat plan. Acknowledge that we've created a FUBAR, and realize that there's really no more purpose served by continued casualties, strain on military resources and tens of billions of additional spending to go on who knows how long, for no result likely to benefit us.

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Pekka
If they are so beaten now that they want peace, then we should strike them now and keep fighting.

Casulaty rates in no way indicate they are weak, in fact casualties against Iraqi forces are steadily climbing.

Or why would they want peace? I say they're weak now.

Because the battle is occuring in their home. Supposedly nobody likes a war, definitely nobody like a war if it is happening in their city.

Pekka is right: Various Islamic fundamentalist groups will continue to f*ck with us (i.e, Western economic powers) as well as anyone who is not "them"... they need to be taught that terror is not an acceptable answer. Period.

Most Iraqi insurgents are Iraqis.

from:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/securit.../0510prison.htm

(Major General) Brandenburg shows that 96 percent of those in the detention camps are Iraqis and about 60 percent are either from Baghdad or Anbar provinces

I have no mercy for these poor bastards unless they put guns down without any conditions. If they want peace, they can have peace. I reckon they're not getting much fighting if they stop it. The only reason why they would pull this kind of thing out is because they want to regroup a little. Bring down the sword.

No, their end goal is removal of foreign forces. If they can get that guarantee, then they'll quit. Could just be a propaganda move, to prove, that if Maliki can't agree to this, then that must mean the Americans intend to stay. That means more recruits.

Democrat plan. Acknowledge that we've created a FUBAR, and realize that there's really no more purpose served by continued casualties, strain on military resources and tens of billions of additional spending to go on who knows how long, for no result likely to benefit us.

republican plan. Stay and fight in Iraq, and build bases until it is obvious to the Arab world we intend to dominate Iraq. No likely benefit to us, except more terrorist attacks eg chances to show how patriotic we are.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Yey insurgents who have more US interests in mind than Demonrats.

Insurgent plan. Pull out troops in 24 months and we (insurgents) stop fighting.

Demonrat plan. Pull out troops within 18 months with no assurances of ceased hostilities.

72% of the American public wants the U.S. to pull out in 12 months. The Demonrats are more conservative than the American people.

PS, Shi'ites are now cheering when Coalition forces get killed. It's not going to be much longer before they turn on us.

PPS, we are building permanent bases in Iraq. Current plans are to have 50,000 American soldiers stationed there permenently.

[Lancer]

Democrats want the US to be defeated in Iraq because they hate Bush.

[chequita guevara]

We already are defeated.

[Lancer]

Defeatism as wishful thinking. Sad...

[chequita guevara]

I'm of mixed mind, because defeating the United States is a good thing. The United States needs a good ass kicking. We're too full of ourselves and too dangerous to leave unchecked.

The flip side is, however, that our defeat will encourage the enemies of Western civilization and enlightenment thought, of both the Islamic and Christian kind. This is a very bad thing, and I'm not sure which is the greater evil.

[Lancer]

Thanks for making my point. You want the US defeated. Plus you're a leftist apologist.

[Berzerker]

It also gives 2 years time for insurgents to build up and gain more strength.

Insurgent plan. Give us time to build, arm, resupply, recruit, and we'll play ball if you ignore us doing the above and promise to kick out the foreign troops propping up your lackey government. Meanwhile, we're 11 out of perhaps hundreds of insurgent groups/cells/whatevers, and out members are pretty much free to do what they want.

I think the gov't will make better use of those 2 years expanding its control over the country than the insurgents will trying to convince people to resume ripping up their neighborhoods after 2 years of relative peace. The war ends and most people go home and start living again...