Poly 2 Fantasy Football - the Draft

[Al B. Sure!]

Man if Fitzgerald is hurt, Im screwed in 2 leagues.

pick Boldin next round to hedge your bets

[Tuberski]

That would hurt too much during their BYE week.

ACK!

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


The #25 RB according to Yahoo expert rankings had 41 receptions last year. I think that elevates him higher than in a non-points per reception league.

That would be by THIS years rankings. That would be a silly thing to use to judge LAST years stats by, as they're presuming he does a good bit more running (Chester Taylor). Most of the RBs down there get 15-20 (not 5, admittedly, but still much less).

I think it is you who are not reading mine. Points per reception bring up RBs who can catch more than most RBs who can't. Therefore, even though it brings up some lower WRs, relatively the top WRs benefit far more than the top RBs do. It doesn't matter that catches are more of a moderating factor than yards or TDs for WRs. What matters is that the moderating factor for RBs is far more impressive... and as talking to Japher has taught me, the fantasy points seperating the 5-15 (or even 20) RBs is NOT that much at all.

Relatively, 2 tier RBs lose their great advantage over lower 2nd tier or 3rd tier RBs who can catch. Making good RBs less scarce (which is the main reason they usually are drafted by most in the 1st round)

Hmm? Rb #5 last year got 268 points by the end of it (in our scoring system here). Rb #15 got 172. That's a 96 point drop, or 36% drop (64% of the higher value).

In comparison, steve smth scored 277, to 182 by the #11 wr. 95 points more, or a 34.3% drop (65.7% of the higher value) AND that's with Smith having a HUGE monster year. The #2 WR had 238 points by our scoring system, compared to 180 by the #12, a 58 point drop, or 24.4% ... and #25 had 153 points, which is only 85 off of the #2 wr, or 36% (again!). Basically, the drop from the #5 RB to the #15 RB is equivalent to the drop from the #2 WR to the #25 WR in our scoring system.

Maybe japher should have gone over some actual stats with you ...

[snoopy369]

Anyhow, you're just not filling out the meaning of your statement. Sure, PPR will elevate some 2nd tier RBs. The question is, which do it elevate to more valuable than the top WRs... (or less)

PPR is a 20 or so point factor, which is negligible, except for two cases: RBs with a much higher factor here (Westbrook), and RBs on the bubble anyway. It isn't significant enough for most RBs (20 points out of 150) to provide much of a boost to the 2nd set of RBs, excepting a very few.

[snoopy369]

Anyhow, Jaguar has left me with instructions and such.

01.01) Albert Speer - Tiki Barber - RB - NYG
01.02) Zopperoni - Larry Johnson - RB - KC
01.03) Berzerker - Shaun Alexander RB - SEA
01.04) Stuie - Peyton Manning QB - IND
01.05) SlowwHand - LaDainian Tomlinson RB - SD
01.06) Japher - Clinton Portis RB - WAS
01.07) Spaced Cowboy - Rudi Johnson RB - CIN
01.08) Donegeal - Edgerrin James RB - ARI
01.09) Snoopy369 - Stephen Jackson RB-STL
01.10) Koyaanisqatsi - Ronnie Brown RB - MIA
01.11) Vlad - LaMont Jordan RB - OAK
01.12) Jaguar - Brian Westbrook RB - PHI
01.13) Tuberski - Carnel Williams RB- TB
01.14) Reismark - Willis McGahee RB - BUF

02.14) Reismark - Steve Smith WR - CAR
02.13)Tuberski - Larry Fitzgerald WR-ARI
02.12)Jaguar - Domanick Davis RB-HOU
02.11)Vlad
02.10)Koyaanisqatsi
02.09)Snoopy369
02.08)Donegeal
02.07)Spaced Cowboy
02.06)Japher
02.05)Slowwhand
02.04)Stuie
02.03)Berzerker
02.02)Zopperoni
02.01)Albert Speer

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by snoopy369
That would be by THIS years rankings. That would be a silly thing to use to judge LAST years stats by, as they're presuming he does a good bit more running (Chester Taylor). Most of the RBs down there get 15-20 (not 5, admittedly, but still much less).

Not all that much running (he is at 25).

Hmm? Rb #5 last year got 268 points by the end of it (in our scoring system here). Rb #15 got 172. That's a 96 point drop, or 36% drop (64% of the higher value).

In comparison, steve smth scored 277, to 182 by the #11 wr. 95 points more, or a 34.3% drop (65.7% of the higher value) AND that's with Smith having a HUGE monster year. The #2 WR had 238 points by our scoring system, compared to 180 by the #12, a 58 point drop, or 24.4% ... and #25 had 153 points, which is only 85 off of the #2 wr, or 36% (again!). Basically, the drop from the #5 RB to the #15 RB is equivalent to the drop from the #2 WR to the #25 WR in our scoring system.

Maybe japher should have gone over some actual stats with you ...

And a #15 RB who can catch the ball will gain more ground on the #5 RB who can't, than a #25 WR to a #2 if catches are counted. Once again, it is based on relative values and relative scarcity! While the #25 barely gains on the #2 WR, the opposite cannot be said for a pass catching RB who was ~#15 compared to a RB ~#5 who didn't catch.. or at least not so much.

[Tuberski]

Dammit! I've PMed both people picking after me and both of them had someone pick for them.



ACK!

[Jaguar]

Here's the pick with better formatting. I'm still around.


01.01) Albert Speer - Tiki Barber - RB - NYG
01.02) Zopperoni - Larry Johnson - RB - KC
01.03) Berzerker - Shaun Alexander RB - SEA
01.04) Stuie - Peyton Manning QB - IND
01.05) SlowwHand - LaDainian Tomlinson RB - SD
01.06) Japher - Clinton Portis RB - WAS
01.07) Spaced Cowboy - Rudi Johnson RB - CIN
01.08) Donegeal - Edgerrin James RB - ARI
01.09) Snoopy369 - Stephen Jackson RB-STL
01.10) Koyaanisqatsi - Ronnie Brown RB - MIA
01.11) Vlad - LaMont Jordan RB - OAK
01.12) Jaguar - Brian Westbrook RB - PHI
01.13) Tuberski - Carnel Williams RB- TB
01.14) Reismark - Willis McGahee RB - BUF

02.14) Reismark - Steve Smith WR - CAR
02.13) Tuberski - Larry Fitzgerald WR - ARI
02.12) Jaguar - Domanick Davis RB - HOU
02.11) Vlad
02.10) Koyaanisqatsi
02.09) Snoopy369
02.08) Donegeal
02.07) Spaced Cowboy
02.06) Japher
02.05) Slowwhand
02.04) Stuie
02.03) Berzerker
02.02) Zopperoni
02.01) Albert Speer

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui



And a #15 RB who can catch the ball will gain more ground on the #5 RB who can't, than a #25 WR to a #2 if catches are counted. Once again, it is based on relative values and relative scarcity! While the #25 barely gains on the #2 WR, the opposite cannot be said for a pass catching RB who was ~#15 compared to a RB ~#5 who didn't catch.. or at least not so much.

Those values were with OUR scoring system, i.e. catches.

You can't take the old system and then say a particular player 'gains ground'. You have to compare relative positions - ie, the #25 wr to the #2 wr - regardless of who occupies that spot.

In our scoring system, the tradeoff to RBs 5->15 last year was more than the tradefoff to WRs 1-11, 2-12, and was comparable to the tradeoff to WRs 2->25.

In a default Yahoo scoring system modified to 10 yards/pt for both [changing to 20 brings up a whole different ball of wax, ie the TD factor], the dropoff to WRs 1-11 was 32%, 2-12 was 29%, and 2-25 was 44%. RB 5-15 was 38%. Compare that to the earlier numbers - 34%, 24%, and 36%, vs 36%. RB dropoff stayed about the same, but excepting Steve Smith, all of the WR dropoffs decrease dramatically in our system compared to y! default with 10 yards per point. (And even Steve Smith has only a slight increase, due to his insane year last year yardwise, but not so insane year catchwise.)

Now, as stated just above, the TD factor is its own ball of wax, and in Y! default scoring, TDs matter more than anything else - which is why taking a top WR early in a y! league is a better thing than the stats show. You know Steve Smith will find the endzone 10 or so times, but finding the guys in the 15-25 range who hit the endzone 7-8 times is MUCH harder. This is why either catches, or 10 yds/point, are necessary to provide some predictability to fantasy leagues

[Imran Siddiqui]

Actually you can take the 'traditional' system and say certain players gain ground. RBs like LaMont Jordan, Brian Westbrook, Chester Taylor (since you named him) gain ground when catches are considered to join a top 2nd tier RB group. However, I don't know of that many (if any) WRs who gain a lot of ground due to catching passes, because if you were down in yards you probably are down in catches.

Its about a number of RBs jumping a tier as a result of their getting points for catches.

[snoopy369]

Most of what you say I agree with ... the point is which RBs (only a few RBs really gain that many points).

However, WRs are a different story ... as I have repeatedly said... the middle and even lower WRs are not down on catches NEARLY as much as they are in yards. Quite a few WRs catch 70-80 balls and 800-900 yards [where 1100 would be more appropriate for that scoring level].

In any event... if stats won't convince you, perhaps the fact that both leagues have had the same RB run would convince you?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Most of what you say I agree with ... the point is which RBs (only a few RBs really gain that many points).

However, WRs are a different story ... as I have repeatedly said... the middle and even lower WRs are not down on catches NEARLY as much as they are in yards. Quite a few WRs catch 70-80 balls and 800-900 yards [where 1100 would be more appropriate for that scoring level].

In any event... if stats won't convince you, perhaps the fact that both leagues have had the same RB run would convince you?

In past years we had the same points per catch stipulation and NEVER this type of run. Always 1 or 2 QBs AND 1 or 2 WRs in the first round, and this in 10 team leagues.

Also the fact that the other league hasn't followed a RB-RB pattern that is done by most traditional leagues may be telling as well in terms of relative value.

And even if a handful of RBs increase their point total vastly due to catches, it has a large impact on the relative scarcity of good RBs. It's a greater pool than in traditional leagues, yet more RBs selected in this league's 1st round than in those leagues.

[vlad]

01.01) Albert Speer - Tiki Barber - RB - NYG
01.02) Zopperoni - Larry Johnson - RB - KC
01.03) Berzerker - Shaun Alexander RB - SEA
01.04) Stuie - Peyton Manning QB - IND
01.05) SlowwHand - LaDainian Tomlinson RB - SD
01.06) Japher - Clinton Portis RB - WAS
01.07) Spaced Cowboy - Rudi Johnson RB - CIN
01.08) Donegeal - Edgerrin James RB - ARI
01.09) Snoopy369 - Stephen Jackson RB-STL
01.10) Koyaanisqatsi - Ronnie Brown RB - MIA
01.11) Vlad - LaMont Jordan RB - OAK
01.12) Jaguar - Brian Westbrook RB - PHI
01.13) Tuberski - Carnel Williams RB- TB
01.14) Reismark - Willis McGahee RB - BUF

02.14) Reismark - Steve Smith WR - CAR
02.13)Tuberski - Larry Fitzgerald WR-ARI
02.12)Jaguar - Domanick Davis RB-HOU
02.11)Vlad-Randy Moss WR-OAK
02.10)Koyaanisqatsi
02.09)Snoopy369
02.08)Donegeal
02.07)Spaced Cowboy
02.06)Japher
02.05)Slowwhand
02.04)Stuie
02.03)Berzerker
02.02)Zopperoni
02.01)Albert Speer

[Imran Siddiqui]

I can always count on vlad to take Raiders early .

Koy... something... is up .

[snoopy369]

He can have them