An Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore is Phony

[PLATO]

Just because Al Gore is correct to point out things about global warming doesn't mean he isn't a blithering idiot...which he is.

However, to help support Oerdin's post, here is a table on CO2 levels:

[Odin]

What the climate was 450mya is irrelavent to the discussion, we are talking about much shorter timescales here.

Oh, and most of these "sceptics" are lackeys of the fossile fuel companies, the same kind of people who were saying that smoking was harmless.

Just face it Berz, you don't want to beleive the idea that we are changing our climate because that would mean we would need stronger enviromental regulations.

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Odin
What the climate was 450mya is irrelavent to the discussion, we are talking about much shorter timescales here.

Oh, and most of these "sceptics" are lackeys of the fossile fuel companies, the same kind of people who were saying that smoking was harmless.

Just face it Berz, you don't want to beleive the idea that we are changing our climate because that would mean we would need stronger enviromental regulations.

I don't know... if we abolished all governments, the subsequent period of total anarchy would crush the global economy thereby reducing emisions. See we don't need government regulations at all

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by PLATO


Al Gore...1988:

"Throughout most of my life, I raised tobacco. I want you to know that with my own hands, all of my life, I put it in the plant beds and transferred it. I've hoed it. I've dug in it. I've sprayed it, I've chopped it, I've shredded it, spiked it, put it in the barn and stripped it and sold it.

-Newsday-02/26/88

Just thought I'd through that in there.

Actually, in the movie there is a segment about Al Gore's childhood growing up in the tobacco industry. He mentions that when the science came out that smoking causes cancer, his family didn't take it seriously - until his Al Gore's sister (a childhood smoker) died of lung cancer. His father then quit the business all together, and Al Gore remarked that he hopes it won't take a (global) tragedy like this before people wake up to global warming.

He also mentioned how guilty he felt about being a part of the industry (albeit, as a child), but that it is natural for people to be skeptical of things which contradict their lifestyles (ie, as it relates to global warming).

Plato: Hate the messenger, embrace the message - if thats what it takes.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Ice cores are great for this though they only go back around 35,000 years. Also the oxygen isotope ratios found in paleo-water (that is water which has been trapped in geologic formations much as oil or gas gets trapped) can tell us a lot about what the climate was like when the water got sequestered.

Hate to say it, Oerdin, but your icecore knowledge is a bit old - try with 420.000 years.

Currently we are living in a period where both CO2 and temperature are at peak wich it seems to be at approx 120.000 year intervals. Further, it seems that the temp goes up before the CO2 level.

The strange thing is that the current peak has been lasting for some 10.000 years, where the earlier has been pretty short.

http://www.daviesand.com/Choices/Precautionary_Planning/New_Data/

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by BlackCat


Hate to say it, Oerdin, but your icecore knowledge is a bit old - try with 420.000 years.

Currently we are living in a period where both CO2 and temperature are at peak wich it seems to be at approx 120.000 year intervals. Further, it seems that the temp goes up before the CO2 level.

The strange thing is that the current peak has been lasting for some 10.000 years, where the earlier has been pretty short.

http://www.daviesand.com/Choices/Pre...ning/New_Data/

Well, humans have been causing massive deforestation even before the industrial era. Maybe we disrupted the part of the natural cycle that reduces temperatures and CO2 levels.

The trouble with all this climate stuff is that there are hundreds of factors that all affect eachother. Higher temps might raise CO2 levels, which in turn raises temperatures further. Though at some point higher CO2 levels increase vegetation, which starts cutting CO2 levels and at the same time changes the ammount of heat absorbed/reflected into space. It also holds more water in the soil, which reduces or alters clouds, which further changes sunlight absorbtion/reflection rates. Now imagine 100 more possible factors which are all inter related, and a handful which only affect others, but aren't themselves affected (like variations in Earth's orbit, plate techtonics).

All in all, it's very hard to know exactly what how the natural cycles work; however, it's pretty obvious that if some extraneous source starts cutting down the ammount of vegetation, while dumping additional CO2 into the athmosphere from a previously non-existing source the existing cycles will be thrown out of whack.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn


Actually, in the movie there is a segment about Al Gore's childhood growing up in the tobacco industry. He mentions that when the science came out that smoking causes cancer, his family didn't take it seriously - until his Al Gore's sister (a childhood smoker) died of lung cancer. His father then quit the business all together, and Al Gore remarked that he hopes it won't take a (global) tragedy like this before people wake up to global warming.

He also mentioned how guilty he felt about being a part of the industry (albeit, as a child), but that it is natural for people to be skeptical of things which contradict their lifestyles (ie, as it relates to global warming).

Plato: Hate the messenger, embrace the message - if thats what it takes.

Well, that would make sense...if he hadn't still been supporting Tennessee's tobacco industy 4 years after his sister's death.

Still, there is something to the "embrace the message" part of your post...it's just that messenger that keeps throwing me off! If Gore says its true then maybe the science really is flawed!....okay...nah. But still, it's Al Gore (where is the vomit smiley?).

/me runs away so no one will see him agreeing with Al Gore

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by PLATO


Well, that would make sense...if he hadn't still been supporting Tennessee's tobacco industy 4 years after his sister's death.

Still, there is something to the "embrace the message" part of your post...it's just that messenger that keeps throwing me off! If Gore says its true then maybe the science really is flawed!....okay...nah. But still, it's Al Gore (where is the vomit smiley?).

* PLATO runs away so no one will see him agreeing with Al Gore

I've occasionally agreed with Bush, even though I generally hate to admit that this is possible.

[BlackCat]

I really hope that none of you guys are japanese - I guess that your shame would demand that you comitted harakiri

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by BlackCat


Hate to say it, Oerdin, but your icecore knowledge is a bit old - try with 420.000 years.

Currently we are living in a period where both CO2 and temperature are at peak wich it seems to be at approx 120.000 year intervals. Further, it seems that the temp goes up before the CO2 level.

The strange thing is that the current peak has been lasting for some 10.000 years, where the earlier has been pretty short.

http://www.daviesand.com/Choices/Pre...ning/New_Data/

Er... I actually read your link this time. It seems to be somehwat unrelated to your post.

Important things:

-Firstly the link says their measurements aren't precise enough to be able to tell which comes first the CO2 or the temperature increases.

However, because of the difficulty in precisely dating the air and water (ice) samples, it is still unknown whether GTG concentration increases precede and cause temperature increases, or vice versa--or whether they increase synchronously. It's also unknown how much of the historical temperature changes have been due to GTGs, and how much has been due to orbital forcing, ie, increases in solar radiation, or perhaps long-term shifts in ocean circulation.

-Secondly, it says that regardless, it is believed that about half of the warming is due to the gasses.

Nevertheless, the scientific consensus is that GTGs account for at least half of temperature increases, and that they strongly amplify the effects of small increases in solar radiation due to orbital forcing.

-Thirdly, the paper notes that CO2 and Methane concentrations are now at unprecedented levels.

It's noteworthy in this context that the current atmospheric methane level is about 230% of its pre-industrial maximum (contrasted with CO2 being about 130% of its pre-industrial maximum). For closer looks at the ice core data for the 18,000 year, 200 year, and 50 year time frames, go to the next page.

-Also look athte graph and notice that the GTG concentration increases at a rate also unprecedented in the natural cycles. This can't possibly good.

Then there's the whole bit about how high temperatures set the stage for a new ice age. We might actually come to realize that Global Warming will mess up the earth in ways we can't even begin to fathom: making the Tropics unlivably hot, and the the Polar regions unlivably cold. Well, that would not make the whole world uninhabitable, but it would reduce the size of the habitable regions even as human population of the planet increases.

I had some other thoughts while reading this, but I really should be watching the Netherlands-Portugal game instead of posting on Poly.

[Donegeal]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Do you have to make up your mind about gravity?

Nice. Subtle yet direct. 6/10 with 3 points deducted for attacking something that has no relevance to the point of the post, and one just because I want to be a meany. Good job.

(Al Gore is still a phony...)

[Sava]

I think the connection that people are making here is hilarious.

"Al Gore is a phony" so therefore there is no such thing as global warming.

BTW, I still don't understand how he is a phony. He's a horribly boring man with no charisma who is almost as polarizing a figure as Dubya. Having Gore on your side pretty much kills your cause. He's a total loser. But a phony?

Explain to me how he is a phony. Someone. Please.

Loser? Yes. Phony? No.

[Victor Galis]

No. Al Gore was a phony in the 2000 election, which is why he lost. He actually cares about environmental issues. He really should have stuck to them instead of trying to reinvent himself every week

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Victor Galis


Er... I actually read your link this time. It seems to be somehwat unrelated to your post.

Important things:

-Firstly the link says their measurements aren't precise enough to be able to tell which comes first the CO2 or the temperature increases.

Dang maybe I should have done the same. I should have noticed the hen/egg doubt

-Secondly, it says that regardless, it is believed that about half of the warming is due to the gasses.



-Thirdly, the paper notes that CO2 and Methane concentrations are now at unprecedented levels.



-Also look athte graph and notice that the GTG concentration increases at a rate also unprecedented in the natural cycles. This can't possibly good.

Then there's the whole bit about how high temperatures set the stage for a new ice age. We might actually come to realize that Global Warming will mess up the earth in ways we can't even begin to fathom: making the Tropics unlivably hot, and the the Polar regions unlivably cold. Well, that would not make the whole world uninhabitable, but it would reduce the size of the habitable regions even as human population of the planet increases.

It is quite right that levels are rising and on unprecedented levels, but the temperature doesn't catch up at same rate.

Another thing is that CO2 is actually one of the lesser important greenhous gasses - it has an effect, but not anything near that of simple water vapor.

Now, this may crave the use of a tinfoil hat, but the magnetic field of the earth has been on a decline since 1860 - together with theories about connection between extraterestial radiation and clouds, well, who knows ? One thing for sure, it isn't a part of current used models.

http://www.dmi.dk/dmi/sr99-10.pdf

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9148-ships-logs-give-clues-to-earths-magnetic-decline.html

I had some other thoughts while reading this, but I really should be watching the Netherlands-Portugal game instead of posting on Poly.

Yeah, priorities - mine is to take over the world as the Scandinavs in a C3C

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Sava
I think the connection that people are making here is hilarious.

"Al Gore is a phony" so therefore there is no such thing as global warming.

BTW, I still don't understand how he is a phony. He's a horribly boring man with no charisma who is almost as polarizing a figure as Dubya. Having Gore on your side pretty much kills your cause. He's a total loser. But a phony?

Explain to me how he is a phony. Someone. Please.

Loser? Yes. Phony? No.

I think that you misunderstand something - people are not bashing Gore because he is a looser, but because he goes after the man and not the ball.