World Football Thread XXX - Germany 2006

[Harovan]

Originally posted by SpencerH
I dont believe I have called any referee corrupt (at least not seriously). In fact I commented earlier that IMO the ref in the Argentina game did a good job (maybe you missed that one eh?).

I didn't say "any". And I did not miss any of your comments. It is just strange, that in most cases everyone comments on good or bad gameplay of the teams, while you seem to have a referee fetish .

And I stopped to give a flying **** about British media long ago. I fear they pulled the Godwin card one time too often. And The Independent? My ass!

[Hueij]

Originally posted by alva
* man, this is gonna take time getting used to calling the German team attacking and exciting.

It's worse than that. For the first time in my live I wanted Germany to win .Germany!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Btw, even if Argentina loses, I have to thank Maxi Rodriguez for an utterly amazing goal and one that will be hard to top as the Goal of the Tourney.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Hueij

It's worse than that. For the first time in my live I wanted Germany to win .Germany!

Everyone should hope that Germany wins. With their non-existing self-esteem, losing the WC would make them probably head for WWIII...

I only have to figure out the role Austria plays in this scenario. We're not especially active in the event. But it has to be somehow connected with ex-referee Konrad Plautz, FIFA security chief for the Allianz-Arena in Munich. An Austrian in Munich!...

[Lawrence of Arabia]

it already has been topped, by Joe Cole.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Btw, even if Argentina loses, I have to thank Maxi Rodriguez for an utterly amazing goal and one that will be hard to top as the Goal of the Tourney.

Not really, Argentina's 2nd goal against Serbia is already goal of the tournament, I very much doubt anything could top that. Total football at its best!

[Maquiladora]

Normally id value a good team goal over any one off strike, but Serbia were putting up very little resistance even with the shot the defender just threw his leg half way. Now if Argentina can do that against someone trying to chop their legs off at every tackle...

I wouldnt call it total football at all either, it was basic push and run.

[Cort Haus]

Germany were by far the better side at 11 vs 11, played some excellent football and deserved to win, but Lucic's 2nd yellow looked bad in four ways.

First, it looked more like just an arm across the player than a proper shirt-pull or a serious foul. Second, two players went to the ref demanding a booking, for which they both should have been booked, as was a Serbian player against Holland for waving an imaginary card. Third, the ref looked like he'd scored a goal when he raised the red and leered at Lucic. Finally, the rewarding pat-on-the back for the ref was horrible.

[Cort Haus]

I expect that fans from all over the world are capable of a bit of self-delusion now-and-again, but I've have to say that I see a lot of it at club level in England. For example, many Spurs fans are convinced they've already won the UEFA cup next year if their bragging about finishing 5th in the EPL is anything to go by - giving us the phrase 'sad, self-delusional Spud'.

However, I expect this kind of thing goes on everywhere. Supporting football teams at club or national level is not a rational thing (except for glory-hunters), and believing in your team, despite objective realities, is part of the game.

[Datajack Franit]

England winning the World Cup.. don't make me laugh

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


I didn't say "any". And I did not miss any of your comments. It is just strange, that in most cases everyone comments on good or bad gameplay of the teams, while you seem to have a referee fetish .

Then you must be reading selectively. I've made plenty of comments regarding gameplay etc but two things drive me crazy:

1) The constant inane yapping by the commentators. I spend part of my time with the sound off to avoid listening to them but means I cant hear the ambiance of the crowd. OTOH if the sound is on so I can hear the crowd I spend half my time yelling at the TV for the parrots to shut up (no doubt today it'll be cries of "Rooney" "Rooney").

2) Game altering referees decisions over minor incidents. As I said I want to see the game decided by the players not by the refs.

And I stopped to give a flying **** about British media long ago. I fear they pulled the Godwin card one time too often. And The Independent? My ass!

It was just something I came across while searching for a name. It reminded me of a similar incident of the crowd effecting the refs decisions. In the Spain - N Irl match in 82 the south-american ref was intimidated by the spanish crowd and wouldnt call fouls against Spain (who were out of the WC and doing some very "hard tackling"). The irish eventually understood what was happening and retaliated then the game turned into one of the most viscious that I've ever seen.

I think you'll have to admit that there was something very telling about that incident after the Lucic red card where Podolski (who had just been so badly fouled to warrant another yellow) is standing there smiling, congratulating the referee, and patting the ref on the back (the closeups of it in replay were astounding I think).

[Harovan]

Originally posted by SpencerH
Then you must be reading selectively. I've made plenty of comments regarding gameplay etc but two things drive me crazy:

...

2) Game altering referees decisions over minor incidents. As I said I want to see the game decided by the players not by the refs.

Thanks for yet another time proving your referee fetish.

It was just something I came across while searching for a name. It reminded me of a similar incident of the crowd effecting the refs decisions. In the Spain - N Irl match in 82 the south-american ref was intimidated by the spanish crowd and wouldnt call any fouls against Spain (who were out of the WC and doing some very "hard tackling"). The irish eventually understood what was happening and retaliated then the game turned into one of the most viscious that I've ever seen.

Another referee story...

I think you'll have to admit that there was something very telling about that incident after the Lucic red card where Podolski (who had just been so badly fouled to warrant another yellow) is standing there smiling, congratulating the referee, and patting the ref on the back (we had closeups of it in replay).

And even a conspiracy theory...

No I don't admit anything "telling" in this incident. Both fouls of Lucic were against Klose, not Podolski. I think your theory just went poof.

And a foul does not have to be "badly" to warrant a card of whatever color. It has to meet a certain condidion. E. g. if a player is "through", i. e. could run freely toward the goal, and he is felled from behind, it does not matter how badly the foul was. Even if only barely touched and no danger of injury, it is normally a red, but at the very least a yellow. Such is the rule.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
I expect that fans from all over the world are capable of a bit of self-delusion now-and-again, but I've have to say that I see a lot of it at club level in England. For example, many Spurs fans are convinced they've already won the UEFA cup next year if their bragging about finishing 5th in the EPL is anything to go by - giving us the phrase 'sad, self-delusional Spud'.

However, I expect this kind of thing goes on everywhere. Supporting football teams at club or national level is not a rational thing (except for glory-hunters), and believing in your team, despite objective realities, is part of the game.

To an extent it does exist everywhere but in my experience it's worse in England than anywhere else I follow.

I've been a FC Twente fan all my life and 10-15 years ago Twente was the 4th team in the Dutch competition, after Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord. Once that started to change I and other Twente fans continued to think we were a top-4 team for a couple of years even though the team just didn't have that kind of quality. Of course, that's only natural if you're accustomed to it and to think that the poor results are only a temporary dip. But by now everyone's adjusted their expectations and we're already pretty happy with a place in the top half of the table, which is a realistic expectation as that's exactly where we've finished the last 3 seasons (8th, 6th and 9th respectively). Our ambition evey year is qualifying for European football but noone here has the illusion that we'll actually succeed at that, we're happy to get it every 2-3 years on average, whether through the cup or the regular competition (we're real cup fighters). Once in the UEFA cup we don't really care how far we get (as long as we don't embarass ourselves), we're just happy to be there at all. We qualified for the Intertoto this season, if we get to the UEFA Cup and survive the group phase it will probably be celebrated as if we've won the Champions League...

Also, very few people in the Netherlands ever expect the national team to win any major tournament. Except at Euro2000 when we had home advantage and should probably have won it if it wasn't for those damn penalties, most everyone here expects us to fail in the quarter or semi final as usual, if we even survive the group stage (which isn't trivial as we always seem to end up in groups of death). OTOH in my perception the English are always convinced at every major tournament they have the best team in years and they've pretty much already won the cup before the tournament even starts, while in reality they've never had a really great team (good, but not great) and they usually have enough trouble getting out of the group; IIRC they haven't even reached any semi final since '66...

So yes, in my experience the English are much more delusional about the abilities of their team/country than fans in any other major European nation. Not saying it doesn't happen at all elsewhere, but it's definitely worst in England.

[Maquiladora]

IIRC they haven't even reached any semi final since '66...

In 1990, where we lost on penalties.

As for delusional, i dont think so. We have every right to be optimistic since we have 4 or 5 of the best players in the world. Maybe we're not Brazil optimistic, but this is a knockout tournament, anything can happen.

[Hueij]

Originally posted by Locutus
I've been a FC Twente fan...

[vitesse fan]Pah... boeren...[/vitesse fan]