World Football Thread XXX - Germany 2006

[Dauphin]

The English mentality is an interesting dichotomy. They believe that they are able to beat the best in the world (hence they can win the world cup despite not being the best), or that they are so crap that all the players and especially the manager need to be dropped and replaced by root vegetables.

Hence the irony of picking Svenn the rutabaga as manager.

[Zoid]

Some pre-match fun courtesy of The Guardian

Spotter’s guide to England v Ecuador: How many can you spot before the end of the day? Print out and play along...

Ian Wright slumped in his BBC chair complaining about the lack of S&M action. (40 points)

England fans finishing the national anthem about three bars before the music. (5 points)

Frank Lampard attempting to reach his ear with his tongue after shanking a shot wide. Again. (30 points)

David Beckham scoring direct from a free-kick, passionately kissing the England badge and breaking down in tears. (100 points). (Additional 300 points if he races up the press box and urinates all over the hacks’ laptops)

Ian Wright using the phrase “the boys done good, y’know” at half-time. (10 points)

Steven Gerrard giving it the big I am at any point in proceedings. (12 points)

Rio Ferdinand failing to clear a shot off the line because he’s too busy cramming Jaffa Cakes into his gob. (75 points)

Ian Wright contributing to the post-match debate by shouting “Yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaah!”/”Noooooooooononononono!” (delete as appropriate). (45 points)

Sunburnt England fans scratching their heads trying to think of an Ecuador-related chant. And failing. (60 points)

Sol Campbell flicking through a copy of Jean-Paul Sartre’s Existentialism. (25 points)

Svennis celebrating a late England winner by dancing the funky chicken from the dugout down to the corner, before pole dancing around the corner flag with his kecks round his ankles. (500 points)

Martin O’Neill finally flipping; removing his tie and strangling Ian Wright with it; then kicking Gary “Hunniford Orange” Lineker in the babymaker and bundling him through the studio window. (750 points)

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


Thanks for yet another time proving your referee fetish.

Another referee story...

And even a conspiracy theory...

No I don't admit anything "telling" in this incident. Both fouls of Lucic were against Klose, not Podolski. I think your theory just went poof.

My not paying attention to who was on the ground doesnt change what happened after the foul. I'm not claiming a conspiracy between germany and the refs BTW just that the players and fans influenced his (bad)decision. I wish I had not deleted the game so I could review it but IIRC the 2nd Lucic yellow occured in midfield. Surely you dont believe that warranted a red? I agree it was a stupid foul that deserved a yellow (as warning) the problem was that he shouldnt have had the first (at all).

And a foul does not have to be "badly" to warrant a card of whatever color. It has to meet a certain condidion. E. g. if a player is "through", i. e. could run freely toward the goal, and he is felled from behind, it does not matter how badly the foul was. Even if only barely touched and no danger of injury, it is normally a red, but at the very least a yellow. Such is the rule.

And it's a rule that is applied in some cases and not others. It's delusional to believe that the more ambiguous rules of soccer are applied in all instances. The best we can hope for is even-handed application of the rules coupled with some attempt to use common sense. For example, we've all heard how shirt pulling will draw an automatic yellow. Has that happened in any game? Not even close! Only some shirt pulling is called. That in and of itself is not necessarily a problem since I would argue that some shirt-pulls are more serious than others. The problem is how arbitrary the referees decisions can be. They seem to call a few shirt-pulls early in the game and perhaps hand out a yellow. The game carries on and so do the shirt-pulls. Now the ref has to decide to continue to call the fouls, in which case we'll soon be down to 5-a-side football, or to ignore all but the most blatant shirt-pulls (which is what normally happens). As a result we have two standards for fouls in the same game.

[Zoid]

Well, there´s a well established connection between Brazil and Germany. Brazil gave refuge to a lot of nazis after WWII. And the back scratching continues to this day apparently

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
As for delusional, i dont think so. We have every right to be optimistic since we have 4 or 5 of the best players in the world.

You just proved my point and disproved your own...

Rooney and Gerrard are great, but they're hardly the best in the world. Maybe 30 at best, just maybe... And other than Cole noone else in England even comes comes close to that.

Yes, in a knock-out anything can happen, even Australia could win it, but if England make it to the semi-final it would a major surprise to anyone who's not English (or Anglophile, most Americans seem to be cheering for England as well if they're not cheering for the US)...

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Hueij

[vitesse fan]Pah... boeren...[/vitesse fan]

You do realise we take that as a compliment?

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Locutus


You just proved my point and disproved your own...

Rooney and Gerrard are great, but they're hardly the best in the world. Maybe 30 at best, just maybe... And other than Cole noone else in England even comes comes close to that.

Yes, in a knock-out anything can happen, even Australia could win it, but if England make it to the semi-final it would a major surprise to anyone who's not English (or Anglophile, most Americans seem to be cheering for England as well if they're not cheering for the US)...

I'll cheer for Ghana until they lose. Then I'll just enjoy the show.

I am now officially hooked on World Cup soccer.

ACK!

[Harovan]

Originally posted by SpencerH
My not paying attention to who was on the ground doesnt change what happened after the foul. I'm not claiming a conspiracy between germany and the refs BTW just that the players and fans influenced his (bad)decision. I wish I had not deleted the game so I could review it but IIRC the 2nd Lucic yellow occured in midfield. Surely you dont believe that warranted a red? I agree it was a stupid foul that deserved a yellow (as warning) the problem was that he shouldnt have had the first (at all).

I don't think the foul was a red. It should be a yellow however. Klose would have had a free run toward the goal. It was by no means a 100% chance (even though Klose is for certain an excellent attacker), so a red would have been a bit harsh, but a yellow is most certainly ok. Which is exactly what he got.

As for "he shouldn't have had the first"... here the "law of the dumbass" works as described above. If I have a yellow booked, I don't pull stunts like this, and if I do, it's exclusively my fault that the team plays with ten for the rest of the game. Not the referee's and certainly not Kloses or Podolskis.

By the way, I do not think he shouldn't have had the first. A referee does have a leverage how to punish fouls. Sometimes he just puts an example, like "you don't mess with me like this". Mostly it comes down to what he believes to have seen, which not having the luxury of a slow motion, is sometimes not exactly what happened.

And it's a rule that is applied in some cases and not others. It's delusional to believe that the more ambiguous rules of soccer are applied in all instances. The best we can hope for is even-handed application of the rules coupled with some attempt to use common sense. For example, we've all heard how shirt pulling will draw an automatic yellow. Has that happened in any game? Not even close! Only some shirt pulling is called. That in and of itself is not necessarily a problem since I would argue that some shirt-pulls are more serious than others.

Yes, a shirt pulling alone does not a yellow make. A shirt pulling of an attacker running toward the goal, or going toward the ball in the penalty box is a certain yellow. And if it was the last defender and it is an "emergency brake", even that measly shirt pulling is a clear red. Not the type of the foul determines the card. The situation does. This game is not about picking flowers on the grass. It is about scoring goals, and if you with unfair means deprive an attacker of an opportunity to do his job, you get a card. And rightly so.

The problem is how arbitrary the referees decisions can be. They seem to call a few shirt-pulls early in the game and perhaps hand out a yellow. The game carries on and so do the shirt-pulls. Now the ref has to decide to continue to call the fouls, in which case we'll soon be down to 5-a-side football, or to ignore all but the most blatant shirt-pulls (which is what normally happens). As a result we have two standards for fouls in the same game.

Yes, the referee does have a hard job. Shirt pulling is always a foul and gets a free kick. Whether it deserves a card or not is a matter of situation.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Zoid
Well, there´s a well established connection between Brazil and Germany. Brazil gave refuge to a lot of nazis after WWII. And the back scratching continues to this day apparently

Stop trolling, otherwise I stop buying your furniture.

... checks appartment ...

Never mind. Stop trolling, otherwise I don't start to buy your furniture.

[Zoid]

Meh!

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Locutus

You just proved my point and disproved your own...

Rooney and Gerrard are great, but they're hardly the best in the world. Maybe 30 at best, just maybe... And other than Cole noone else in England even comes comes close to that.

Im sorry, i was going by coaches from all around the world rating these players, not your single opinion of these players.

Lampard was voted 2nd best player in the world for example, but doesnt get a mention from you.

[Colon™]

Non-WC related, but I just found a video-compilation of Luc Nilis. He was a Belgian striker who always used to make beautiful goals.

So to whom it concerns: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...432540&q=nilis

[SpencerH]

There's just no spark. I think England has the talent but so far they just suck. They dont seem to have any ideas or leadership.

[SpencerH]

I've heard Balboa moan about Beckham for game after game now what'll he say? Beautiful goal!

[Imran Siddiqui]

And if anyone wondered why Becks was on the field...

[q=SpencerH]I've heard Balboa moan about Beckham for game after game now what'll he say? Beautiful goal![/q]

They aren't mutually exclusive, you know? You doth protest too much about the announcers.

FWIW, I think the announcers have done a pretty decent job on US TV so far. 'Celo isn't that great, granted, but Dave O'Brien is pretty good (even though he doesn't know the game as well as some others). The second team of Dellacama and Harkes are great though.