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World Football Thread XXX - Germany 2006

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  • Originally posted by SpencerH

    Lots of teams miss PK's.
    Which is sad. PK shooting in this cup has been terrible.

    Are we talking about Germany who didnt score against Sweden down to 10 men for 3/4 of the game?
    One man less does not seem to affect the defense as much as the offense. Plenty of teams in this cup have been able to hold off the opposition with a man down. Like Trinidad, or the US.
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    • Originally posted by Maquiladora


      Do you think Chilavert is Mexican too?
      A Paraguyan has more reason to hate Argentines than Mexicans.
      If you don't like reality, change it! me
      "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
      "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
      "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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      • Originally posted by GePap

        One man less does not seem to affect the defense as much as the offense. Plenty of teams in this cup have been able to hold off the opposition with a man down. Like Trinidad, or the US.
        "Hold off the opposition".

        The problem is that Sweden had to attack.
        We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
        If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
        Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

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        • Originally posted by GePap

          A Paraguyan has more reason to hate Argentines than Mexicans.
          He most likely doesnt care enough either way.

          If you recall the incident then, theres no way the remaining defender could get back and intercept the Mexican through on goal, so are you saying it wasnt a foul in the first place?
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          • Originally posted by siron
            Are we talking about Germany who didnt score against Sweden down to 10 men for 3/4 of the game?

            But when Sweden has corner kicks we dont defend with girls like Beckham. So it was very unlikely they would even score with 11 men.
            Well we'll just have to wait and see how the suspect german defense does against a good team and 11 players. So far you've faced neither for 90 min.
            We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
            If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
            Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

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            • According to my knowledge Germany doesnt play against Sweden again....

              I mean that Swedish Squad which permantly pwnd the english one when it had its corner or free kicks.

              And btw....when the both situations were fouls I think both yellow cards are technically correct. A pretty dumb foul, the 2nd one....but the ref isnt there to show mercy.
              "Football is like chess, only without the dice." Lukas Podolski

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              • Originally posted by GePap
                And what act in particular did the Argentines deserve a red card for exactly? because I have no freaking idea where you think a red card should have come from. Heck, Chilavert and the fine people at Univision (Mexican company, IIRC) couldn't find any such play. So dare inform us where a red card would have come from.
                The BBC could.


                Argentina received a let-off of huge proportions when Abbondanzieri rolled the ball out and Heinze had a momentary lapse of concentration.

                Fonseca leapt at the chance but with a clear run on goal he was felled by Heinze.

                Referee Massimo Busacca chose the wrong option by only showing a yellow card to the Manchester United defender.

                Mexico's Argentine boss Ricardo La Volpe berated the official from the sidelines and his side were poorly rewarded when Marquez hit the free-kick straight at the wall.
                BBC, Sport, BBC Sport, bbc.co.uk, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service

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                • Originally posted by Kalius

                  The BBC could.
                  I think most people could, it was a clear sending off.

                  Btw, Mexico really impressed me tonight.

                  A real shame there had to be a loser in this game.
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                  • Originally posted by SpencerH
                    Are you saying that Sweden had a chance to come back against Germany, in Germany, down two goals, and with ten men?

                    With 11 men it was nearly hopeless. With 10 it was hopeless ie the ref's bad decision ended the game.

                    As for my previous comment, perhaps the various germans who seem to be upset over it didnt notice the smiley. Too busy celebrating I guess.
                    I saw the smiley, just your paranoic obsession about corrupt referees is far beyond funny and no smiley can relativize it anymore.

                    I don't deny that this tournament has seen a few strange decision of referees. The goal not given for Argentina against Mexico was a valid goal, no offside. The second goal of Costa Rica against Germany was about 1 m offside. The penalty for Ghana against the USA was not a penalty. Neither was the penalty for Sweden against Germany today. Both were nice divings, if I ever saw one.

                    Why do I know that all? I have seen enlarged slow motions of all these situations, each about 3-5 times with stops at the deciding moments. And I have gotten the situation commented and explained by a referee in the TV studio. Does that make me better than the referee in the game? No, because he does not have this luxury.

                    About your yellow/red card obsession: In these situations shows the difference between a good player and, well, a dumbass. Everyone can get a yellow card, even the best and fairest players can. But when a good player has a yellow card booked, even an unjust one (see above), he does his damnedest not to touch his opponents again in this game, or not to touch the ball with his hand. If a dumbass has a yellow, he will pull some stunt again a couple minutes later (hello Pope!). And if he gets his second yellow (and hence a red), it is fully deserved. Because a yellow card means an admonishment. And if a player ignores the friendly warning he got from the referee, he has to go in an unfriendly way. That simple.

                    Look, Ballack had a yellow booked in the Poland game. He played the full 90 minutes against Equador. He played simply great, weak opponent or not. He gave Klose the wonderful pass for the 2:0. But one thing was very obvious: He played exceptionally fair this game. He did his very best to avoid yellow-prone situations. Because if he got a yellow, he would have sat on the bench today.

                    By the way I never celebrate football games, not even won ones. I watch them and when they're over I go mind my other business. I am interested in seeing nice games regardless who is playing. I am by no means what one would call a fanatic.

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                    • Originally posted by Sir Ralph


                      I saw the smiley, just your paranoic obsession about corrupt referees is far beyond funny and no smiley can relativize it anymore.

                      I don't deny that this tournament has seen a few strange decision of referees. The goal not given for Argentina against Mexico was a valid goal, no offside. The second goal of Costa Rica against Germany was about 1 m offside. The penalty for Ghana against the USA was not a penalty. Neither was the penalty for Sweden against Germany today. Both were nice divings, if I ever saw one.

                      Why do I know that all? I have seen enlarged slow motions of all these situations, each about 3-5 times with stops at the deciding moments. And I have gotten the situation commented and explained by a referee in the TV studio. Does that make me better than the referee in the game? No, because he does not have this luxury.

                      About your yellow/red card obsession: In these situations shows the difference between a good player and, well, a dumbass. Everyone can get a yellow card, even the best and fairest players can. But when a good player has a yellow card booked, even an unjust one (see above), he does his damnedest not to touch his opponents again in this game, or not to touch the ball with his hand. If a dumbass has a yellow, he will pull some stunt again a couple minutes later (hello Pope!). And if he gets his second yellow (and hence a red), it is fully deserved. Because a yellow card means an admonishment. And if a player ignores the friendly warning he got from the referee, he has to go in an unfriendly way. That simple.

                      Look, Ballack had a yellow booked in the Poland game. He played the full 90 minutes against Equador. He played simply great, weak opponent or not. He gave Klose the wonderful pass for the 2:0. But one thing was very obvious: He played exceptionally fair this game. He did his very best to avoid yellow-prone situations. Because if he got a yellow, he would have sat on the bench today.

                      By the way I never celebrate football games, not even won ones. I watch them and when they're over I go mind my other business. I am interested in seeing nice games regardless who is playing. I am by no means what one would call a fanatic.
                      I dont believe I have called any referee corrupt (at least not seriously). In fact I commented earlier that IMO the ref in the Argentina game did a good job (maybe you missed that one eh?).

                      As you have pointed out there have been more than a few "strange decisions" and I too have looked at some of them in slow motion. Wonderful, we both have technology unavailable to the ref.

                      I have not been commenting about referees making mistakes. That will happen in any sport. Offsides get called that are not, and vice versa. So long as its an occasional thing well "c'est la vie". The english ref in the Croatia game certainly made a mistake with the three yellows. Despite that, I would say that he did a good job. Certainly, his decisions, one way or another, did not substantially alter the course of the game.

                      No one would deny that some fouls deserve a yellow or red card. What has been happening at this WC, however, is that relatively minor infractions (especially those happening in midfield) are being automatically punished with bookings by some refs (the bad ones). IMO some of those questionable decisions (over minor issues) may have effected the outcomes of those games and that's not what I want to watch in any sport. I want to watch the players decide the game not the ref.

                      Of course you may argue that the players who got the 2 yellows were stupid and got what they deserved. Sometimes that's true, but I would say that in some cases they didnt deserve any of it to begin with. Personally, I dont believe Lucic'c first yellow was even a foul.

                      BTW I wondered why the ref didnt red card Jonsson when he leveled Ballack when he gave two yellows to Lucic for very minor incidents.

                      some comments from The Independent http://sport.independent.co.uk/footb...cle1096243.ece

                      It was Munich's opportunity to fluff up that cumulus and they wished the team on their way with enthralling passion. But also with a dose of partisanship which, at times, crossed the line. They whistled and booed the Swedes and joined their own players in imploring the Brazilian referee, Carlos Simon, to produce cards. He duly obliged.

                      Two for Teddy Lucic in the first half and Sweden had to play for almost an hour with 10 men in the close heat. The memory of Podolski begging Simon to show Lucic red and then patting him on the back for doing so will linger almost as long as that of his sharply taken goals.

                      Lars Lagerback, the Swedish coach, chose his words with care but clearly his pre-match concern over whether the referee was strong enough to withstand the bear-pit atmosphere had rung all too true. "He had an influence on the game," Lagerback said. "I don't know if he stood up to the pressure."
                      Typical Swedish understatement.

                      EDIT After thinking about it I'd say it comes down to this. The bizarre decisions dont seem to bother your enjoyment of the football. OTOH, while I dont really care who wins, sending off players over dubious referee choices ruins the game for me and I'm gonna comment on it.
                      Last edited by SpencerH; June 24, 2006, 21:06.
                      We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
                      If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
                      Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

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                      • Some points - (by the way, I am a bolivia who lives in salta, north argentina)

                        -Heinze could have gotten a red card, it was a borderline faul in my opinion, both, a yellow card (what he got) and a red card would have been ok.

                        Argentina got screwed at the end when the messi goal was called off side, it was not off side.

                        So, the ref maybe made some mistakes but all even.


                        -Paraguayans dont hate Argentines, and chilavert played almost his whole career in argentina, he is an idol there.

                        -Mexicans always play their best against argentina and brazil in the south american tournaments they are invited too, proving that they are real good and not just good enough to beat small concacaf countries + usa motivates them.

                        -Mexico played great, only a moment of inspiration by maxi rodriguex let argentina win (altough arg could have won with the canceled messi goal)

                        -For me mexico was clearly better only during the first half, the rest of the match was even, and after the 90 minutes argentina clearly better.

                        -I think germany will beat argentina, if the match seems to be going the 0-0 road, germany will be given a chance to score a penalty for sure.
                        I need a foot massage

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                        • Germany has some great goal scoring this tourney and, yes, the game was over before Lucic was sent off, but it was still a horrid call. Absolutely ridiculous. This is contrasted by the too lenient yellow on Heinze. But, you know, with all the cards in this WC, I'm glad one ref decided not to immediately go for the card.

                          The QF match between these two should be a classic.

                          And may I add, with the US out, my secondary rooting interest was satisfied today (that Mexico gets knocked out as soon as possible). Now, I may have to find a team to back .
                          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                          • Argentina v. Germany is going to be a fun game to watch.
                            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                            • Two great (attacking and exciting*) teams don't necesarily make a great game.


                              * man, this is gonna take time getting used to calling the German team attacking and exciting.
                              Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?
                              Then why call him God? - Epicurus

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                              • Klinsmann made Germany attacking and exciting! Obviously he has no idea what he's doing
                                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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