Third partiers... independants... we've got to vote democrat

[Q Classic]

Vesayen, frankly, I have to vehemently disagree.

I refuse to support a political party which doesn't understand technology and finds itself completely pussified and ineffective when given power.

Furthermore, the entire US political system has suffered from a dry rot that has devastated and hindered any real attempts at reform, instead merely enabling the elite to remain in power--a government of self-interested ****** who bear so little resemblance to the common man that their policies do nothing but shaft the country as a whole.

Voting Democrat will not solve that--indeed, nothing short of a revolution will solve that.

I'm not calling for a revolution now; instead, I'll just say, "**** that, I'm still not voting Democrat." I will continue to be Independent.

That, and I live in a blue state. It doesn't matter a single fig which way I vote, thanks to the archaic and reprehensible electoral college system.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by VJ

Nope, independants are smart, for them politics is about rational decisions instead of emotions and prejudices.

Most American voters are idiotic sheep. As proof I submit the last 6 years of history. They vote without doing research on who they vote for.

[Datajack Franit]

Voters aren't stupid just because they're not voting for the guy you like

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
Vesayen, frankly, I have to vehemently disagree.
I refuse to support a political party which doesn't understand technology and finds itself completely pussified and ineffective when given power.

And your free to do that. I am not a big fan of the democrats. However America is now in REAL DANGER and I think it finally has reached the point where it is moraly justifiable to support a lesser evil.

Originally posted by Q Cubed
Furthermore, the entire US political system has suffered from a dry rot that has devastated and hindered any real attempts at reform, instead merely enabling the elite to remain in power--a government of self-interested ****** who bear so little resemblance to the common man that their policies do nothing but shaft the country as a whole.

We *CAN NOT* fix this now. It is not possible. America is not ready. Why should we fight a worth while but IMPOSSIBLE battle when the cost of fighting that battle is a serious blow to our future(for the reasons outlined in the last few posts)?

Originally posted by Q Cubed
Voting Democrat will not solve that--indeed, nothing short of a revolution will solve that.

I am unsure if a revolution is the only solution(though it is a solution). I agree that voting democrat will not fix the problem that the goverment is corrupt as hell and the democrats are only less severe plutocrats then the republicans.

Do you realize however there are different degrees of damage both parties are willing to do? We can *NOT* stop both of them now, it is just not possible. The COST of trying that, could be the worst harm done, instead of only the moderate harm. It is harm reduction.

Originally posted by Q Cubed
I'm not calling for a revolution now; instead, I'll just say, "**** that, I'm still not voting Democrat." I will continue to be Independent.

The future of American liberty really IS at stake.

Originally posted by Q Cubed
That, and I live in a blue state. It doesn't matter a single fig which way I vote, thanks to the archaic and reprehensible electoral college system.

I think I may have the better part of 3 dozen threads on this forum bashing our electorial system and practices heh.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
Voters aren't stupid just because they're not voting for the guy you like

I don't like the guy I voted for.

Correct, they are not stupid just because they are not voting for the guy I like.

They are stupid because they are stupid, ignorant sheep who won't spend 10 minutes of research before voting for the leaders of their country.

[Jaguar]

They are stupid because they are stupid? Holy circular reasoning, batman!

[Q Classic]

Vesayen, if given the choice between sticking a poisonous thorn in my eye and a fork in my eye, I'm sure I'd just shut the ****ing eyelid.

Such is the case with the Democrats and Republicans. Call it youthful idealism here, but I am as of yet unwilling to support the lesser evil.

I am unsure if a revolution is the only solution(though it is a solution). I agree that voting democrat will not fix the problem that the goverment is corrupt as hell and the democrats are only less severe plutocrats then the republicans.

A revolution is the only solution. It would sweep away the retardation of political parties; indeed, one can only hope a democratic ad-hocracy arises in its place.
Any Jeffersonian with an inkling of creating a political party deserves to be shot in the head like the self-interested ***** of a cur they are.

===

You are free to compromise your principles to vote Democratic in this case.

I will not.

[Vesayen]

Remove the second "they are stupid" and look past the comma for the rest of my response-or did you stop reading halfway through the sentence?

[Jaguar]

So you contend that it's not circular reasoning, it's just a badly written and repetitive assertion unsubstantiated by any supporting facts?

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
Vesayen, if given the choice between sticking a poisonous thorn in my eye and a fork in my eye, I'm sure I'd just shut the ****ing eyelid.

You would still go blind. That is a perfect analogy, you may close your eye lid to spite the poison or the fork, but you'd still go blind either way but only one way preserves your life.

A poisonous thorn(suppose) will kill you. A fork may only blind you. Choose the fork, your going blind either way.

Originally posted by Q Cubed
Such is the case with the Democrats and Republicans. Call it youthful idealism here, but I am as of yet unwilling to support the lesser evil.

Well you've made your choice. Your choice is to allow American power to potentially end world wide, for our economy to be destroyed, for our middle class to vanish and most important for the constitution to become a worthless document. Do you know how little manipulation to the tax code is needed to destroy the little class? How many times can the president ignore the constitution till it is no longer relevant?

Originally posted by Q Cubed
A revolution is the only solution. It would sweep away the retardation of political parties; indeed, one can only hope a democratic ad-hocracy arises in its place.

Wrong. A revolution is first off, highly unlikley and it is not a guarantee we will end up with a unified stable goverment after. It could be possible for a popular political movement to sweep the country, it needs a charismatic leader with organization skills.

We are not looking at the same problem, so our solutions are different. The problem I am analyzing is the continued existance of American economic, military and political power and respect for the constitution. It is a more immediate and severe problem then the one you are worrying about.

Originally posted by Q Cubed
You are free to compromise your principles to vote Democratic in this case.

I am not compromising my principles. I am trying to preserve what is left of our democracy. You would throw it all away.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Jaguar
So you contend that it's not circular reasoning, it's just a badly written and repetitive assertion unsubstantiated by any supporting facts?

Fine, call that part of it was circular reasoning. It was not my main justification, it was expressing my frustration and outrage at American stupidity.

Would you like a cookie for nit picking?

[RGBVideo]

Vesayen: Good post, and I agree on pretty much everything. The reason why I'm a bit frustrated about the incompetence of US opposition party is because I'm probably going to immigrate there within the next five years. I can't do anything but whine and ***** about the future direction of your country while short-sighted corruption is destroying it.

Originally posted by Vesayen
How many of our old friends in Europe now oppose us?

Not many. France has always been a country which has no honour in the arena of diplomacy, it'll back-stab it's friends without any hesitation. Great Britain is still actively with you. The governments of Denmark and Poland are your new fans. Your government has sent a clear message to Russia that it won't help it in it's own War against Terrorismâ„¢, which has made Putin to seek co-operation with mainland China. Apart from that, most European countries are pretty passive in their trans-Atlantic diplomacy.

The democrats are not saying the taxes should be raised on the rich, they are saying we shouldn't get rid of taxes on the rich and destroy the noble class, which is something most of America would agree with, if they knew it was even being said.

The point is that they're focusing on divisive issues while issues where there is no division among the voters like respecting the law and loads of outrageous corruption scandals are available. Furthermore, repeating "culture of corruption" and other lame talking points over and over again won't matter to your Joe Sixpack who has no time to find out about the details of the scandals by himself -- for him, the name "Plamegate" will matter as much as "Whitewater". In order to reach voters, democrats and their supporters should refer to specific corruption scandals, tell clearly what happened in them and who is responsible for what. Honest descriptions of corruption cause outrage, obscure references to trendy "gate"-ending labels cause boredom.

I was pointing at the grammar, you finnish capushnik

Oh. I guess I should work on my English in the near future.

Furthermore, the entire US political system has suffered from a dry rot that has devastated and hindered any real attempts at reform, instead merely enabling the elite to remain in power--a government of self-interested ****** who bear so little resemblance to the common man that their policies do nothing but shaft the country as a whole.

Voting Democrat will not solve that--indeed, nothing short of a revolution will solve that.

I'm not calling for a revolution now; instead, I'll just say, "**** that, I'm still not voting Democrat." I will continue to be Independent.

That, and I live in a blue state. It doesn't matter a single fig which way I vote, thanks to the archaic and reprehensible electoral college system.

Wait, you're too lazy to start a revolution so you won't do that, but since you want to start a revolution you refuse to vote, altough you could do the latter now and still do or dream about the former in the future?

Frankly, grow up. You're throwing your vote away and are somehow trying to be proud of it.

[RGBVideo]

Vesayen, if given the choice between sticking a poisonous thorn in my eye and a fork in my eye, I'm sure I'd just shut the ****ing eyelid.

The error within this analogy is that even if you do not vote in real life, the winner still gets elected. You not voting does not mean that the republican or democrat who wins will not represent you in US Congress.

[Jon Miller]

And then in another 20 years it will be Third partiers... independents... we've got to vote republican

Actually, knowing this, I will probably still vote democrat this next election...

JM

[chequita guevara]

Unless the Democratic party elite gets replaced by the rank-and-file, I see no reason for me not to vote Socialist.

Do you know that the Democratic Party is not ruling out supporting Leiberman in an independent run if he gets defeated in the Democratic Primary?!?! How the f**k could you ever support a party that holds its own voters in such obvious contempt? Schumer called the rank-and-filre revolt in the Connecticutt Democratic Party of bunch of terrorists! **** the Democratic Party! It's time is over. It deserves to go the way of the Whigs and Federalists.