Is this chicken still good?

[Straybow]

One thing you have to watch is sprouts. If they are swimming in brown juices, and you eat them, you will be ****ting for days..

I guess that's why you turned blue...

[Datajack Franit]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST



I hope it was at least a german Bratwurst,
produced according to the german Wurst-Reinheitsgebot

Lidl-wursts

[Lancer]

Oerdin, pull it out of the garbage, wrap it up and post it to me. Ought to be here in a week.

After five or six trips to the Phils I could eat the thing raw and the killing of all those nasty bugs would be mere training for my elite intestinal flora.

Walk in the park...

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

One assumes freezing killed any that were in the chicken before

I don;t know, so I'll ask.

Wouldn;t freezing have the same affect on many micro bugs that it has on cells? They burst?

Don't cells burst when frozen?

But then, meat doesn't change much in consitency when thawed. Hmmm.

[snoopy369]

Many microorganisms (particularly, but not exclusively, bacteria) can generate spores, which can survive freezing easily and then re-generate.

Most meats are considered to have 4 hours safe time at >5°C (40ºF)/less than 60ºC (140ºF), and around 4 days safe time refrigerated (above -5ºC/25ºF). (Temperatures are approximate.) Beyond that, microorganisms on the meat may be able to grow adequately to endanger the safety of the product.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I haven't heard of any rule changes.

I doubt the thread is still in the archives. I posted it five years ago. The administration changed the rules in 2001 that fecal matter had to be both "visible" and "roapy" in order for meat to be marked unsafe. The previous standard was much stricter (and I'm not even counting that Clinton enacted new rules that tightened it even further in his last days).

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by notyoueither


I don;t know, so I'll ask.

Wouldn;t freezing have the same affect on many micro bugs that it has on cells? They burst?

Don't cells burst when frozen?

But then, meat doesn't change much in consitency when thawed. Hmmm.

cells with cell walls tend to be very resistant to the bursting. Such cells die in the freeze thaw cycle mainly from the way the ice crystal denature such a large fraction of their proteins. Even so a big fraction of their cell populations will recover from the freeze thaw cycle seemingly total unfazed.

[Straybow]

I have no idea what "roapy" means...

[chequita guevara]

Neither do I, actually, but I suspect it means solid. So if your beef is contaminated with diarhea, they can just rinse it off or something. Yum!

Buy organic.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Straybow
[Q] [
Not true. There are many common misconceptions about medieval Europe, which was characterized by unprecedented prosperity. The purchasing power of the laborer's wage rose almost continually for five centuries.

Yes but those common misconceptions aren't mine.

Meat in the diet was a cyclical thing: fresh meat was scarce in autumn/winter months; the meat to be had by the poor was heavily salted and spiced. Mutton was eaten because it was from older, less fatty lambs or sheep and was in the pot for a long time.

Peas, beans, rye, wheat and barley and oats kept the poor alive and dried plant stems, chaff and straw was the usual winter feed for any cattle left (usually one cow).

By October/November, animals bought at the beginning of the summer were sold on again to any speculators who could afford to feed them through winter for resale at a healthy profit in spring.

Preserving with salt and any additional spices (cloves, pepper) added more than 40% to the cost of raw materials.

Foods forbidden to the poor or plain citizens also included swan and sturgeon.

The massive inflation that came with the XVI. influx of Mexican silver and Incan gold hit the laborers' purchasing power hard, and it continued to decline for three centuries.

Inflation also came with bad harvests- from 1315-1317, food inflation was estimated at running at 200% because of crop failure.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Neither do I, actually, but I suspect it means solid. So if your beef is contaminated with diarhea, they can just rinse it off or something. Yum!

Buy organic.

So the old rules still apply to foods sold as 'organic'? It seems to me the 'organic' beef would just get the 'ole rinse off fix as well.

[chequita guevara]

Well, organic meat is probably under the same bad rules for meat packing, but since organic producers take a lot more care with their food, I suspect it's a lot less likely to be contaminated with feces.

[Straybow]

I didn't say you invented them, otherwise they wouldn't be common misconceptions. Now, think of what you're saying:

Spices were valued as preservatives, yet none have more than very slight preservative value. This is known to food science today.

Imported spices cost the equivalent of hundreds of dollars an ounce, yet somehow the poor were using them on their nasty old meat.

I especially like the part how livestock would be thinned to a single cow (or maybe two), every winter! They musta had miracles of Biblical proportions every spring...

Yes, food prices went up in draught, etc. Then prices dropped back down. Priciples of supply and demand worked even though they hadn't been theoretically modeled.

Long term inflation was about 50% per century, with a few spikes. But that's why I used the wording "buying power of the laborer's wage" which accounts for general inflation.

Yes, the poor had it bad. Same throughout history until recently. What else is new? But the lower and middles had it better than before or since (until the XX.).

So besides salt, what did those Medievals use for preservation? A mysterious practice called "pickling," for meats (particularly fish) and veggies.

[molly bloom]

I didn't say you invented them

I don't recall stating you did.

Originally posted by Straybow
Spices were valued as preservatives, yet none have more than very slight preservative value. This is known to food science today.

Actually this is incorrect; numerous spices have an antiseptic, anti-microbial, anti-inflammatory or anti-diarrhoeal property.

In all medical systems of Asia and Europe, spices have been used both as therapeutic foods and as medicines. Despite the contrasting opinions of different experts who insisted on their indications, there is little evidence of any specific benefit from most spices.

Many pungent spices are unattractive to animals (excepting most, humans, many birds and some rodents), and they do have some antimicrobial, gastrointestinal, and mucus-loosening properties. Modern studies suggest that garlic, onion, allspice and oregano are the most potent antibacterial and antifungal agents; thyme, cinnamon, cloves and chile peppers are among the next best, while cardamon, black and yellow pepper, ginger, anise and celery seeds are less effective.

http://unitproj.library.ucla.edu/biomed/spice/index.cfm?spicefilename=SpicesAsMeds.txt&itemsuppress=yes&displayswitch=0

In any case you're stating something I haven't said; spices were used in salted foods more to combat the relentless saltiness of preserved meat with their pungent flavours.

I didn't state either that the poor used them on a day to day basis, nor did I say how much they used. Nice strawmen there.

I'm well aware through my study of Mediaeval food and Venetian trade of just how important the spice trade was, and how expensive spices could be by the time they reached Northern Europe.

I especially like the part how livestock would be thinned to a single cow (or maybe two), every winter! They musta had miracles of Biblical proportions every spring...

Are you just not reading my post in favour of your own interpretations of what I've written ?

This is what I wrote:

...animals bought at the beginning of the summer were sold on again to any speculators who could afford to feed them through winter for resale at a healthy profit in spring.

Reads rather differently from what you've insinuated I've put.

A mysterious practice called "pickling," for meats (particularly fish) and veggies.

What did they also use in pickling besides vinegar or verjuice ? More of those spices.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Neither do I, actually, but I suspect it means solid. So if your beef is contaminated with diarhea, they can just rinse it off or something. Yum!

Buy organic.

Organic only means that the animals aren't given antibiotics, anything else is fair game. There are organic feed lots now a days.