Is this chicken still good?

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by GePap

Communicable diseases and kids dying before they were 5 years old.

Go ahead Oerdin and thow your money away, cause the food police is sure you will drop dead.

Actually, I would think that what killed people back then would be the same as what kills people now, but in higher proportions. And, well, food poisoning kills people today... so... yeah.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by GePap
This is why Europeans and American go to the third world and end up on the toilet half the time.

It's also why 3rd worlders die of food poisoning far more frequently than we do. Also remember, American chickens are highly contaminated with various nasty bugs. They spoil much quicker than chickens who are killed fresh and not dunked in a cooling tub with thousands of other birds.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Eh. Chicken is cheap. If it was an expensive cut of beef I would say to risk it...

Beef ages better anyway and is covered with as many germs. Make sure you wash it though. They can have quite a bit of fecal matter on them due to the change in ruling by our Prez.

[Dinner]

The best steak I ever had was aged 30 days then given a dry rub of herbs and cooked over an open flame. Delic.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Beef ages better anyway and is covered with as many germs. Make sure you wash it though. They can have quite a bit of fecal matter on them due to the change in ruling by our Prez.

::vomit::

What rule changes?

[Dinner]

I haven't heard of any rule changes.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Geronimo


freezing (well the total freeze thaw cycle really) only kills something like 90% of the total organism load found on most foods including meats. Once the surviving organisms starts dividing and growing again that loss is rapidly recovered. Even worse, many of the worst bugs with respect to toxins produced are among the most resistant to being killed by the freeze thaw cycle.

Definitely,
which can easy be shown by an easy mathematic example,
for example if one does assume 2 bacteriae as the initial population and assumes that they divide every hour and then calculates how much bacteriae you get if they do so for 48 hours

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by GePap

Communicable diseases and kids dying before they were 5 years old.

One of the newer theories on the devastating Black Death of the 14th Century (and the wave of epidemics that followed for decades) states that along with some rat born disease there was also a murrain which affected meat supplies, given that Iceland (which had been rat free at the time) succumbed to the Black Death and that mediaeval pigeon houses and dovecotes lacked any kind of built in defence against the supposedly devastating hordes of rats.

The number of laws and severe punishments awaiting those selling tainted meat or fish in mediaeval markets were also obviously there for a reason.

The poor in any case did not have meat on a regular basis (hence all the European mediaeval tales about poaching) and meat (as well as other food products) was left to 'hang' or ferment- beef was deemed suitable for preparation when grey, and poultry such as pheasant was left to get quite pongy.

::vomit::

What rule changes?

Urbi et Orbi


These ones:

15/10/2002 - US consumer groups blamed a "business-friendly" Bush administration for lax food safety policies on Monday, in the wake of the largest US meat recall ever that prompted a 34 per cent drop in shares of Pilgrim's Pride.

Pilgrim's Pride, the number two US poultry producer, on Sunday recalled 27.4 million pounds of fresh and frozen ready-to-eat turkey and chicken products under its Wampler brand, after pulling 295,000 pounds of turkey and chicken products from the market last week due to listeria concerns.
The recall surpasses the previous record of 25 million pounds of ground beef set by Hudson Foods in 1997.

The company said the recall occurred after environmental tests at its Franconia, Pennsylvania, plant found a strain of listeria similar to the one identified in an outbreak in the US Northeast that has caused at least 23 deaths and 120 illnesses.

The company halted production at its Pennsylvania plant and recalled meat products it made between 1 May and 11 October. It said most of the turkey and chicken was purchased nationally at grocery stores and restaurants and already consumed.

US consumer advocates blamed the Bush administration for the massive recalls, saying hundreds have fallen ill because Washington eased food safety standards.

http://foodanddrinkeurope.com/news/ng.asp?n=28457-us-consumers-blame

and

January 5, 2005

Meatingplace.com
Pete Hisey

The Consumer Federation of America's charges that political collusion between the Bush administration and the meat industry has led to a rise in the incidence of listeria nationwide were sharply denied by the U.S. Department of Agriculture and industry organizations like the American Meat Institute and the National Chicken Council.

CFA pointed to Centers for Disease Control figures that showed that the incidence of listeria infection in the United States rose 22 percent in 2003 from 2002 levels after several years of steady decline.

The 31-page case study, "Not Ready to Eat," contends that the meat industry virtually controls USDA through both large political donations that favor Republicans in general and President George W. Bush in particular and a large number of appointees at USDA that come from the meat industry — particularly the National Cattlemen's Beef Association and the National Pork Producers Council. While both charges are true, big business as a whole tends to favor Republicans in political donations, and most government agencies employ people with backgrounds in the industries they regulate.

CFA charges that since Bush came to power in 2001, regulation of RTE producers has been slack and a proposed rule to address Listeria monocytogenes (Lm) has been repeatedly watered down.

http://archives.foodsafetynetwork.ca/fsnet/2005/1-2005/fsnet_jan_5.htm

I tell ya, those mediaeval market inspectors could teach Dubya a thing or three...


Oh listeria, what hysteria, when I'm near t'ya....

[Straybow]

Eat, drink, and be merry!

Still sealed, stored in the freezer, then thawed in the fridge and forgotten? No problem, growth rates are too slow below 40°. Salmonella and listeria are bacterial infections. Thorough cooking will kill all the bacteria. If only the small amount of toxin from growth during thaw is present it will only cause discomfort.

The recommendations are there because too many people leave meat out to thaw at room temperature for hours. The surface thaws quickly and is at or near room temperature for hours before the core thaws. One hour at room temp will produce more bacteria than a week in the fridge.

Even then, most infections are from handling the raw meat, rather than from consuming the cooked meat. Blood gets on the hands and then to the mouth. Improper handling can also contaminate the cooked meat by contact with uncooked blood on hands, plates, utensils, countertops.

So, if you haven't already infected yourself through handling, you're safe!

[Straybow]

Originally posted by molly bloom
The poor in any case did not have meat on a regular basis (hence all the European mediaeval tales about poaching) and meat (as well as other food products) was left to 'hang' or ferment- beef was deemed suitable for preparation when grey, and poultry such as pheasant was left to get quite pongy.

Not true. There are many common misconceptions about medieval Europe, which was characterized by unprecedented prosperity. The purchasing power of the laborer's wage rose almost continually for five centuries.

By the XIV. annual per capita meat consumption was about 100kg in Germany and similar in the rest of northern Europe. The differences between rich and poor were qualitative rather than quantitative: beef and goose rather than mutton and pidgeon. Poaching only covered deer and pheasant, whereas trapping hares or grouse was allowed to the peasantry. Chamois was permissible game in the Alps and Pyranees.

The massive inflation that came with the XVI. influx of Mexican silver and Incan gold hit the laborers' purchasing power hard, and it continued to decline for three centuries. By the XIX. meat consumption was as low as 20kg per capita.

The Black Plague was transmitted primarily be fleas. Rats were the most widespread and uncontrollable carriers of fleas, but all humans and livestock were suitable vectors of transport. One must also note that central Poland was Plague-free, despite rats and fleas. Nobody knows why.

PS: nice little ode to listeria.

[Jon Miller]

I have eaten (non meat) foods that sat out for quite some time

cheese pizza is still edible after a week sitting out.. salsa can be left out forever (pace picante or whatever..)

Cake can only be left out for 4 weeks or so, and I think it was making me sick for some of that time

Jon Miller

[Straybow]

[Jon Miller]

One thing you have to watch is sprouts. If they are swimming in brown juices, and you eat them, you will be ****ting for days..

JM

[Datajack Franit]

Once I fed my german guests with wursts left 2 months in the fridge

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
Once I fed my german guests with wursts left 2 months in the fridge

I hope it was at least a german Bratwurst,
produced according to the german Wurst-Reinheitsgebot