I have new respect of ancient mariners.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by CerberusIV


Actually they were smarter than that. They could tell that there was land over the horizon from wave patterns and knew there was somewhere to go ahead of them.

They weren't smarter than that until, by trial and error, they figured out that these wave patterns meant this, and those wave patterns meant that. Which means that, yes, a whole bunch probaly sailed the wrong direction and died.

[molly bloom]

Re: Not so

Originally posted by pchang


While the Romans used captured slave, the Greeks did not.

I think it is Xenophon who mentions Athens using slaves from the silver mines at Laurion as oarsmen out of necessity, having suffered military defeat.

[Japher]

Ben-Hur

though I really thought he'd be buffer after all that rowing

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by DaShi
But Greeks still buggered little boys!

That was the Spartans. You stick a bunch of guys in military barracks with little or no access to women and that kind of thing is going to happen.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Hence, caveman > astronaut

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by CerberusIV

They could tell that there was land over the horizon from wave patterns and knew there was somewhere to go ahead of them.

Not at distances of 1000 miles, there weren't any wave patterns.

The Chinese were supposed to have sailed to Africa and perhaps to Mexico.

Phoenician coins have been found in Venezuela.

The Vikings may have settled on Cape Cod.

Just amazing. You'd have thuk they'd have fallen off the edge of the Earth first.

[Berzerker]

and its hard to believe polynesians found easter Island but didn't go on and find S America

[Dinner]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1984421

The BBC says there must have been some contact between Polynesia and South America because one of Polynesia's main food stuffs was the sweet potato which undisputably came from South America. It must have been a hell of a journey because no pigs, chickens, or dogs survived the journey from polynesia (well possibly dogs since dogs were present in the new world) were found in the New World by the European explorers. Supposedly Polynesians always set out with enough supplies to start a whole new colony thus if they found a suitable island then they could start a new colony.

Of course the 4000km journey to South America would be very long so possibly they ate all of their live stock or they died on the way. Amazingly someone must have made it back with the sweet potatos.

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by Oerdin

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1984421

The BBC says there must have been some contact between Polynesia and South America because one of Polynesia's main food stuffs was the sweet potato which undisputably came from South America.

I remember watching a TV programme a few years ago on the idea that the Tierra Fuego natives had the same origin as the Australian aborigines and were not genetically related to those who moving into the Americas across the Bering land bridge.

There is also some evidence to suggest a european tribe migrated along the edge of the ice to N America at the end of the last ice age as Clovis spear points match earlier european examples and occur earliest in the Eastern US, not Alaska.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


The Chinese were supposed to have sailed to Africa and perhaps to Mexico.

The Chinese did indeed sail to Africa and trade directly, not just through Arab or Indian middlemen. Chinese porcelain has been found in the the ruins of Zimbabwe, and they traded with the east coast of Africa for ivory, ostrich feathers, gold, spices, and so on.

What I find less convincing about (supposedly continuous) Chinese contacts with North and Central and South American Pre-Columbian cultures, is that these civilizations all succumbed to devastating epidemics of disease common to both Europeans and Asians- smallpox, influenza, measles and so on.

One might have expected regular contact with cultures from the other much more populous side of the Pacific to have furnished some kind of immunity from diseases common both in Canton and Cordoba, Nanjing and Naples....

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
I'm still blown away by the ancient Tihitians who paddled a thousand miles to discover Hawaii.

I can't help thinking about all the poor guys who must have paddled a thousand miles in some other direction only to die of hunger or thirst.

Not too likely - of course, some would get wiped out by storms - no way to predict that, but they couldn't carry provisions for 1,000 mile trips, so they had to get food and water on the way. You're also talking about people who had pretty refined navigational skills, and a store of basic knowledge about the seas, sealife and birds, weather and current patterns, etc. Storms leave great trails - downed trees and debris drifting for hundreds of miles, etc.

Only true lubbers would just pick a direction and paddle off.

[notyoueither]

There's some guy making an argument that there was a Chinese colony on Cape Breton Island.

[notyoueither]

http://www.1421.tv/pages/content/index.asp?PageID=125

THE ISLAND OF SEVEN CITIES

WHERE THE CHINESE SETTLED

WHEN THEY DISCOVERED NORTH AMERICA

by Paul Chiasson

“If it is true, the find would rank among the greatest archeological discoveries of all time, [and] turn much of modern history upside down.”
National Post

Is it possible that a Canadian architect, out for a hike on a summer’s day, made an earth-shattering discovery that has the potential to turn everything we know about the discovery of North America on its head? Cape Breton Island is one of the oldest points of exploration and settlement in the Americas, and its history dates back to the earliest days of European discovery. As school children we learned that John Cabot “discovered” Cape Breton Island in 1497. But important new evidence suggests that Cabot may not have been the first visitor to Canada’s eastern shores. THE ISLAND OF SEVEN CITIES by Cape Breton native Paul Chiasson poses the provocative question: Did China map the globe before the European age of discovery had even begun?

While visiting Cape Breton to celebrate his parents’ fiftieth wedding anniversary, Paul Chiasson decided to climb a previously unexplored mountain. As a child he had spent many afternoons playing among the crumbled remains of ancient brick and stone walls built on wild rocky shorelines, but on this particular day he became intrigued by a unusual rock formation. On the steep climb up the hill he realized that the overgrown path he was following was actually a road three metres wide, and that the sides of the path were marked by the remains of a perfect stone wall. When he reached the top, he stumbled upon the long-forgotten ruins of a village that bore marks of an ancient design. Chiasson contends that the ruins could not be those of a fishing outpost, farm, or fortification, but are, in fact, a lost settlement. Two years of historical investigation have led Chiasson to conclude the settlement is of Chinese origin.

During his research, Chiasson found numerous references in journals of the day referring to “The Island of Seven Cities” – a body of land located in the northern Atlantic. At the Toronto Reference Library, he came across a reproduction of a map drawn by Christopher Columbus in 1490 – a detailed map of “The Island of Seven Cities.” On it, Chiasson was amazed to see the depiction matched both the shape and coordinates of Cape Breton Island.

Elements began to fuse together. Writings about “The Island of Seven Cities, which Chiasson believed to be Cape Breton, referred to the territory as la Tarterie – “the region of the Chinese.” The walled towns of China were often located along small rivers and built into the sides of hills. The site that Chiasson discovered had those very characteristics. In addition, the language, clothing, religion and legends of the Mi’kmaq who were indigenous to the region also displayed deep cultural roots from China. During the fifteenth century, China had ruled the Indian Ocean; if its ships had rounded the Cape of Good Hope, Cape Breton Island could have easily been reached via the ocean currents. Everything Chiasson uncovered during this two years of obsessive research – drawing from five hundred years of maps, records and eyewitness accounts – suggests that the site he found on the mountain had not been built by European settlers, and in fact pre-dated John Cabot’s 1497 discovery of the island.

Chiasson proves himself to be a master detective, piecing together clues to challenge accepted versions of history. His discovery of the remains of an ancient Chinese settlement on Cape Breton Island is a direct result of his ancestral interest in the island’s history and of his unique ability to understand the unusual architectural forms that the ruins represented – remains that had been previously misunderstood or overlooked.

THE ISLAND OF SEVEN CITIES suggests for the first time that a large Chinese colony existed and thrived on Canadian shores. It is certain to be one of the most controversial and debated books of the year.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

PAUL CHIASSON is a Yale-educated architect whose expertise is the history and theory of religious architecture. He was born on Cape Breton Island and is a direct descendent of the Acadians who were among the first European settlers in North America. He has taught at Yale, at the Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C. and at the University of Toronto.

[Sava]

ancient Mariners

[reds4ever]

Wouldn't the Chinese have documented this "large colony"?