The Palestinian Authority declares war on Israel?

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Spiffor

As far as I know, no nuclear power has ever triggered MAD. MAD has been a solid enough deterrent that even the most trigger happy countries have avoided nuking anybody, since MAD begun.

I think that's partly because most nuclear powers have been much less vulnerable to a decapitating first strike than israel would be, mostly because they are simply much larger. Israel is so tiny that the delay in response caused by a decapitation strike would be more than long enough to completely destroy israels remaining nuclear capability with a fairly small number of missles that would have a relatively short flight time.

All that would be needed was that first smuggled in decapitation strike.

[Sirotnikov]

There are western news sources that dispute what you say, Geronimo.


As far as this goes - we still need to find out what exactly caused the Palestinian family to explode. It could be an old shell that didn't explode. It could be from Israel's bombing. It could also be a palestinian rocket gone astray. It happenned several times.

A palestinian minister had his daughter's house hit by a Hamas rocket, a few months ago.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
There are western news sources that dispute what you say, Geronimo.


As far as this goes - we still need to find out what exactly caused the Palestinian family to explode. It could be an old shell that didn't explode. It could be from Israel's bombing. It could also be a palestinian rocket gone astray. It happenned several times.

A palestinian minister had his daughter's house hit by a Hamas rocket, a few months ago.

i said multiple things in this thread which one was in error?

[notyoueither]

Neutralising Israel's nukes.

They have at least one BM sub.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Neutralising Israel's nukes.

They have at least one BM sub.

thank god. There is nothing more destabilizing than a favorable first strike situation in an otherwise MAD relationship between nuclear powers. I think for geographically tiny nations the need for such a retaliation option that is secure from a first strike is especially great.

Is the existance of the sub (is it three BM capable subs?) and it's BM capabilities at least well enough established to serve as an effect deterrant against a first strike?

[notyoueither]

You didn't know about it, and I've only heard that it most likely exists. I can't recall the story behind it.

However, I'm quite sure Israel's neighbours would have heard about it if I have.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Geronimo


Why isn't english the first language of most israelis?

Why has there never been a substantial fraction of american born citizens among the Israelis?

Why is US citizenship insufficient to gain israeli citizenship?

Why do scarely 15% of israeli imports come from the US?

Why does Israel spy on the US?

Exactly what traits of being a colonizer does the US have in palestine/israel?

In fact what traits of a being colony does israel have at all?

It would seem that "colony" has simply come to mean having a large population descended from immigrants and it doesn't even matter if those immigrants came from all over the place.

It's as much as colony of the US as Canada.

[notyoueither]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine

Every known strategic, ballistic-missile carrying submarine (SSBN) operated today is nuclear powered. In regard to tactical nuclear weapons, it is widely rumored that Israel tested nuclear-capable cruise missiles from two German-built Dolphin-class diesel submarines in May 2000; if so, these are likely operational today.

They're cruise missile armed, not ballistic.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Geronimo
I think that's partly because most nuclear powers have been much less vulnerable to a decapitating first strike than israel would be, mostly because they are simply much larger. Israel is so tiny that the delay in response caused by a decapitation strike would be more than long enough to completely destroy israels remaining nuclear capability with a fairly small number of missles that would have a relatively short flight time.

All that would be needed was that first smuggled in decapitation strike.

IIRC Israel has several submarines capable of carrying nuclear-tipped missiles. Those are a bit harder to take out, especially for Iran.

edit: nye put it better

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by notyoueither

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine

Every known strategic, ballistic-missile carrying submarine (SSBN) operated today is nuclear powered. In regard to tactical nuclear weapons, it is widely rumored that Israel tested nuclear-capable cruise missiles from two German-built Dolphin-class diesel submarines in May 2000; if so, these are likely operational today.

They're cruise missile armed, not ballistic.

hrmm, well that shouldn't greatly reduce their second strike value. I'm not sure there are (potential) nuclear powers outside of cruise missle range of israel who would be regarded as overtly hostile to israel.

So would israel be able to communicate to these subs the identity of the attacker following the launch of missles on the heels of a surprise smuggled weapon decapitation strike and would they be capable of targeting the weapons and responding appropriately for a second strike based on that information?

[notyoueither]

One would assume they have command and control suitable for the weapons system.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Straybow

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
As you point out, the Christian Sudanese, i.e., the Nubians, were there first. That is their homeland. It's not really comparable to Arab natives fighting against a European colony.

Except the "natives" weren't Arabs.

If you live somewhere for a thousand years, that's sufficient to make you native when someone else invades.

[notyoueither]

How long does it take for people whose families have been in the Americas for generations to be 'natives'?

[Kuciwalker]

However many years the Europeans have been here... plus one.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by notyoueither
How long does it take for people whose families have been in the Americas for generations to be 'natives'?

I dunno. There's no fast-and-hard, apply-to-all-situations rule. The difference here is we are rather aware that we invaded and took the land from someone else, rather recently, and who is still here. Our national identies are built around our immigrant heritage.

The Israelis were exiled for two thousand years, intermarrying with the families of their European and Arabic hosts. They aren't the same people as were exiled. They every bit as much of immigrants to Israel as we are to the Americas. Their national myth, however, claims that the land of Israel was empty until they decided to emigrate and improve the land. Only after did Arabs move in. It's false, but the myth sells well in Israel and here.

Maybe in another few hundred years our decendants can call themselves natives. But the invasion and genocide ended just a little over one hundred years ago.

But this is just an opinion, and not one I've thought hard about.