Islamic militia says Mogadishu captured

[Lancer]

So MtG, if the president asked you for a solution to the mess in the islamic world, what would you suggest?

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Lancer
So MtG, if the president asked you for a solution to the mess in the islamic world, what would you suggest?

I bet he'd suggest that bush insist cheny resign and then follow with his own resignation.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Grow a beard, learn Arabic, figure out which way Mecca is, and memorize your Qu'ran.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Grow a beard, learn Arabic, figure out which way Mecca is, and memorize your Qu'ran.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Arrian

It's true, I'm silly for arguing with Sava.

And people wonder why I don't engage in serious discussion on teh interwebs.

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


They will enjoy, but they won't stop as long as one of them is still drawing breath.

And this illustrates why America will continue to lose the WoT and mess things up in Iraq and the rest of the region... people just don't understand the "enemy", the culture, Islam, and the history behind what is going on.

You can kill a thousand terrists... each time you kill one of them, you create a more. Another takes his place.

There are two alternatives. Withdraw and coexist. Or nuke them all. I doubt the world is going to allow us to do the latter. And believe it or not, this whole spreading Democracy by force BS isn't going to work.

Yeah, they thought America was decadent in the 50's. But it's a far cry from believing we are all decadent infidels to actually getting people to fly planes into buildings. It's easier to recruit people for suicide missions when there are US bases in the region... even easier when we're killing innocent people and occupying their homeland. But believe what you want to believe. You're obviously an "industry expert" on this subject too.




okay, no more arguing with idiots for me today...

later guys

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Mullah Omar was principled. The Somali Islamists may well be open to making deals, and may even behead the occasional unlucky pirate and free a foreign merchant crew from time to time to look like nice Islamists. Will they actively monitor and deny support to other Islamists who operate discreetly in and from their territory, because a bunch of western kaffir states want them to?

I wouldn't bet my disability check on it.

Doenst Mauritania have an Islamist govt? havent they been cooperating in opposing AQ? Turkey?

Its not like these guys have anywhere to run to, again in contrast to the Talibs.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Sava
And this illustrates why America will continue to lose the WoT and mess things up in Iraq and the rest of the region... people just don't understand the "enemy", the culture, Islam, and the history behind what is going on.

Given that I've read the Qu'ran (have one), have some passing knowledge of Arabic, have spent time there, and studied the history, culture, literature and art of the ME since a couple of decades before it became fashionable, I somehow doubt you know much more about the region than I do.

You can kill a thousand terrists... each time you kill one of them, you create a more. Another takes his place.

Original rhetoric there, wow, I'm ****in' impressed. Gotta watch them terrists.

There are two alternatives. Withdraw and coexist. Or nuke them all.

Another original thought. Did it ever occur to you that "coexistence" requires mutual consent, old chap?

I doubt the world is going to allow us to do the latter. And believe it or not, this whole spreading Democracy by force BS isn't going to work.

D'oh!

Yeah, they thought America was decadent in the 50's. But it's a far cry from believing we are all decadent infidels to actually getting people to fly planes into buildings.

Yeah, they had a real tough time doing that, alright.

It's easier to recruit people for suicide missions when there are US bases in the region...

You mean the same way it's easier to go to the grocery store just down the road, instead of flying to Paris to get groceries? Yeah, logistics is a little bit of a problem for everyone.

You're obviously an "industry expert" on this subject too.

On your knees. Slowly. Eat me.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Doenst Mauritania have an Islamist govt? havent they been cooperating in opposing AQ? Turkey?

Its not like these guys have anywhere to run to, again in contrast to the Talibs.

Mauritania isn't really particularly Islamist in more than name. Army officers, not mullahs, call the shots, and Mauritania is not only a strategic non-entity, it is desperate for western support to develop any offshore oil and gas resources.

And Turkey is hardly Islamist, given the presence of elections, political parties, and a secular military.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Geronimo

I think bigotry in this case begins the moment someone judges individuals on the basis of a dislike of their religion. Realistically though if you have a low opinion, especially contempt, for someones relgion your'e almost certainly going to end up holding it against them personally as well.

I have nothing against the vast mass of Muslims in the world . They're people . And people are people everywhere . I judge their belief system as a belief system , and I judge them , as individuals , based on their actions and words .

Originally posted by Geronimo

I think maybe the best approach is to criticize specific beliefs in the religion that you object to rather than the whole belief system. even if it's a long list. that way you may discover that ideas you thought were integral to a religion have no set place in it at all.

What happens if that list happens to incorporate more than half of the beliefs integral to that religion ?

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by aneeshm



What happens if that list happens to incorporate more than half of the beliefs integral to that religion ?

Nothing much. youre still better off using that list than attacking the religion as a whole. Religions evolve in response to changes in the societies around them. Almost certainly a huge fraction of the items in your list will turn out to be rejected by many of that religions adherents as not truly part of their religion.

No point in alienating people who will help to reform the religion from within by attacking the religion itself rather than the things you find objectionable in it. Doing so is pointless.

Religious reform is a gradual process but it's about the only way such reform ever takes place. it's nearly impossible to achieve the same results simply by "showing" people how their religion as a whole is inherently messed up.

[Dinner]

The US was only giving the warlords a grand total of $100,000 per month. That's just $1.2 million per year spread out over all the warlords. That's hardly enough to wage a war; more like pocket change.

[dannubis]

but again, they ended up on the losing side. and it is known you supprted the bad guys. so, how will the sentiment be in somalia towards the us you think ?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by dannubis
but again, they ended up on the losing side. and it is known you supprted the bad guys. so, how will the sentiment be in somalia towards the us you think ?

No worse than it has been since the time of UNISOM II.

[Ramo]

I really dont know enough about this "Islamic courts" group. Are they Salafists? What is the nature of the connections some of them are claimed to have with AQ? What are their goals wrt Sharia?

Its possible we can negotiate with them, or they can work with the TNG in Baidoa.

I don't think they have a definite ideology, it's a relatively heterogenous group among Sunni Islamists. I don't really see them going the Taleban route.