Islamic militia says Mogadishu captured

[Fake Boris]

Wonderful too that after centuries of Muslim domination, you guys still haven't integrated the Greek principles of sound arguments, even though Islamic philosophy has had them since the Middle Ages

[aneeshm]

Let me put it this way for you , nitpicker : If , for purposes of argument , we assume that X is worse than Y , why is saying to "bigotry" ?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The reason the tendency is so strong in Islam today is that we (the West) actively supported it as a foil to the Communists for decades. We are reaping what we have sown.

Hardly - the tendency started well before we supported Islamist groups. Al Qutb was already a martyr well before the west supported any Islamic group, and a far larger amount of money and materiel support came privately from the middle east than ever came from the US.

Do you honestly think these guys wouldn't be around today if the US hadn't provided support to Hekmatyar and other mujahedin leaders?

[Sava]

Islamic militia says Mogadishu captured

Let them have it

from: http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Somalia

Somalia: A Brief Critical History

Somalia better known as Greater Ethiopia does not actually exist. The fake country is an imagination brought to light by a Khat chewing Mexican who migrated to the small town of Bayanhongor, Mongolia. However, Greater Ethiopia's president Prime Minister Meles 'Starvin Marvin' Zenawi freed the Mongol slaves and named them Soma's after his former prison inmate; Soma Lia. The Khat chewing Mexican expanded that name by adding the latter part of his new found country's name and later establishing the complete name of Somalia. However, Zenawi's inmate who is also the lover of Oscar Wilde and the Earl of Kent felt that Zenawi's righteous and liberating mannerism should not go unnoticed and migrated to Hayes, Somalia.

[Arrian]

So we should just let them have Afganistan too, eh?

How'd that work out?

-Arrian

[Sava]

Originally posted by Arrian
So we should just let them have Afganistan too, eh?

How'd that work out?

-Arrian

We did let them have it. (pre-2001) And you are a moron if you think their controlling Afghanistan caused 9-11.

And don't pretend as if the warlords that make up the Northern Alliance are nice people.

BTW, they pretty much control all of Afghanistan, aside from the area around Kabul where our puppet Karzai is living it up.

When will everyone learn that our presence in the region is what they are all so pissed about? They view our continued occupation as a colonization... which, in their eyes, is a modern crusade. And therefore... is the excuse for the whole jihad!

So essentially, we are fighting the fire with gasoline.

YEAH, GREAT IDEA!!

So yes... I say, LET THEM HAVE THEIR LITTLE ****HOLE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DESERT AND THE MIDDLE OF THE MOUNTAIN WASTELAND. I DON'T GIVE A ****. At least they won't be flying any more planes into buildings. Or eventually trying to do something worse. And in the meantime, we have a political party using terrorism as an excuse to go to war and restrict freedom at home.

Maybe America can learn to swallow it's pride instead of this "we can't let the terrists win" mentality.

How many more billions of dollars must be flushed down the toilet before we learn? How many more thousands of people must die, huh?

So yeah... let the Muslims have Somalia and Afghanistan.

ENJOY

[Arrian]

We did let them have it. (pre-2001) And you are a moron if you think their controlling Afghanistan caused 9-11.

And don't pretend as if the warlords that make up the Northern Alliance are nice people.

Allowing Afganistan to become the Taleban-run haven for A-Q that it became did have consequences. Did it cause 9/11? No. But it was a factor.

When did I even mention the NA? I'm aware they're a bunch of thugs.

Anyhoo...

We've got kinda of a catch-22 situation going on here, Sava. On the one hand, our presence (primarily our military presence, but also our economic and cultural presence) in "that part of the world" does indeed feed the beast, so to speak, but at the same time just waving our hands and saying "whatever, let 'em have it" in regards to places like Somalia = giving up the possible disruption of training camps and such.

Nice ALL CAPS and smilies, though.

-Arrian

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by aneeshm
Let me put it this way for you , nitpicker : If , for purposes of argument , we assume that X is worse than Y , why is saying to "bigotry" ?

Because the point of the discussion is not to know whether or not it's bigotry, but to demonstrate that X>Y is true.

To conclude that it's not bigotry, you need to assume in your premice that indeed X>Y - which is why I call it begging the question.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Arrian

Nice ALL CAPS and smilies, though.

You'd think after about 5 years of posting here, you'd understand my posting style by now.

However, as for the whole training camps issue... What need do they have for training camps if they aren't fighting a jihad against us? That's one thing people seem to be forgetting.

Not only does our presence fuel the fire of the fundies, but it further alienates the moderates. Being there accomplishes nothing and it makes things worse. There is no reason to be there. One day, America will learn this just like it learned the lesson after Vietnam. This isn't Vietnam, it's different. But it's still a mistake.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Arrian
So we should just let them have Afganistan too, eh?

How'd that work out?

-Arrian

    (*)   <---- the joke

    ( )
     |    <---- you
  --|--
     |
    / \

[Arrian]

You think the jihad would just go away if we pulled out of the ME?

It might dissipate over time if the various "root causes" that are actually under our control were removed. Let's say we withdraw from Iraq & Afganistan. Ok, what about Israel? Our, shall we say "special relationship" with Israel is a major justification for jihad - perhaps the #1 factor. Do we suddenly dump Israel too? I'm not a huge supporter of Israel, personally, I'm just asking.

Then there is the issue of our cozyness/support for various dictators in the ME and elsewhere. Do we cut ties with them all, like Saudi Arabia? If so, do we have a plan for the economic fallout?

And when you get rid of all of those grievences, there remain others which certain fanatics probably won't let go. Two things spring to mind: continued revenge attacks for past wrongs (real or imagined) and attacks based on the idea that we're sinful infidels.

Our foreign policy is a mess, to be sure, but simply pulling everything back right now isn't the answer. Less meddling may be the right policy long-term, but in a situation like Somalia (no government to speak of, until perhaps now - aka a "failed state") where there is a well-known effort by people who have declared jihad on us to gain control of the country... ignore it? I don't think that's sound policy.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

    (*)   <---- the joke

    ( )
     |    <---- you
  --|--
     |
    / \

It's true, I'm silly for arguing with Sava.

-Arrian

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Sava


Let them have it

from: http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Somalia

(stuff)

[Arrian]

Oh my, did you actually think I thought that was a real link?

-Arrian

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Sava
We did let them have it. (pre-2001) And you are a moron if you think their controlling Afghanistan caused 9-11.

It did give them an undisturbed, centralized base of operations and HQ for their command and control.

And don't pretend as if the warlords that make up the Northern Alliance are nice people.

BTW, they pretty much control all of Afghanistan, aside from the area around Kabul where our puppet Karzai is living it up.

They're *******s who are only threatening to their own people and to their immediate neighbors of the wrong ethnicity. So they're a little down the totem pole from the major league *******s.

When will everyone learn that our presence in the region is what they are all so pissed about? They view our continued occupation as a colonization... which, in their eyes, is a modern crusade. And therefore... is the excuse for the whole jihad!

You actually swallowed that crap? Al Qutb went over the edge when he visited the US in about ~1951 as a representative of the Egyptian Ministry of Education. It was a 50's high school sock hop that set him off - males and females dancing together, females wearing make up, gyrating obscenely, female chaperones present and permitting it all, and presuming to talk to adult males as equals. You know, all that depraved debauchery that was common public conduct in early '50s middle America.

That official visit to the US as a representative of the Egyptian government precipitated much of al Qutb's doctrine of Islamic revolution and jihad against any non-Islamic state.

As Syed Abu A'la Maududi (peace be upon him) enlightened us "Islam requires the entire world."

The only real issue with our presence in the ME is that we are an obstacle to establishment of Islamist governments, and then a pan-Islamic state to initiate the coversion of the remaining world.

[quote]
So essentially, we are fighting the fire with gasoline.

YEAH, GREAT IDEA!!
[quote]

No, we're fighting a fire in the midst of a block of warehouses full of gasoline.

So yes... I say, LET THEM HAVE THEIR LITTLE ****HOLE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DESERT AND THE MIDDLE OF THE MOUNTAIN WASTELAND. I DON'T GIVE A ****. At least they won't be flying any more planes into buildings. Or eventually trying to do something worse. And in the meantime, we have a political party using terrorism as an excuse to go to war and restrict freedom at home.

Maybe America can learn to swallow it's pride instead of this "we can't let the terrists win" mentality.

And from that little ****hole, they will proclaim that Allah has granted them victory over the great evil, as he granted victory to the Afghan brothers over the Soviets, leading to their downfall.

How many more billions of dollars must be flushed down the toilet before we learn? How many more thousands of people must die, huh?

It hasn't even begun yet.

So yeah... let the Muslims have Somalia and Afghanistan.

ENJOY

They will enjoy, but they won't stop as long as one of them is still drawing breath.