China vs India War: Who Wins? (No Nukes)

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Serb
edited: I used painfully instead of painlessly

That would be my preferred method of disabling Russian hardware.

[Cort Haus]

All Russian-made planes are fitted with a hidden CRM-114 Discriminator. The correct code prefix will activate a Doomsday Device (have you not heard of Cobalt-Thorium G?), punishing anyone foolish enough to attack Mother Russia with one of its own planes. We only hope the attack will come after the General Secretary's birthday, when the device is to be announced. (He likes surprises).

[Vince278]

Didn't they upgrade to a CRM-118 back in '69?

[Terra Nullius]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
You do realise that China would be attacking from the mountains while India would be attacking towards them. This would give the Chinese a distinct advantage.

I still can't quite work out what you mean by this.

In very general terms you might say; China controls the Tibetan Plateau and India controls the Ganges valley. So the territory controlled by China is higher in altitude (and more mountainous) than that controlled by India.

You might look at the Himalaya as a wave, with the Main Himalayan Range as its crest. Then India is sitting in the trough, and China is positioned behind, on the shoulder of the wave.

Edit: India appears to control only a narrow strip on the southern edge of the Himalaya. While China controls the bulk of the mountains through Tibet, leading up to the main ridge.

[Terra Nullius]

But, looking at the western flank, the actual line of control runs right along the Main Himalayan Range.

China would still have to cross the Main Himalayan Range before it could enter Uttar or Himachal Pradesh and the southern side of that range is in India's control.

I don't think there's much chance of China crossing directly into Uttar Pradesh or of India crossing from there. The terrain is simply too difficult. The few passes that exist over that part of the mountains are extremely difficult. I don't think either side could support a major invasion here.

This image shows the border and ranges west of Nepal.
Note: the border (north of Uttar Pradesh) runs precisely along the main range.

[Terra Nullius]

So, unless we're talking about occupation of Nepal (or Right of Passage), any western crossing would have to come through the Ladakh/ Aksai Chin area.

But in this area, it is India which would be (substantially) attacking from the mountains.

On the exterme western flank, There are five main ranges to cross. India controls the ranges south of the Main Himalayan as well as controlling the Zanskar Range and the southern side of the Ladakh Range.

The area under dispute in the 1962 Sino-Indian War was Aksai Chin. This area is north of the Ladakh range. If India had controlled this area, it would have access directly into the Tibetan Plateau.

So, although India was forced to basically concede territory in this war, the territory in question was well and trully on the Chinese side of the mountains.

Simply put, India projects much deeper into this part of the mountians than China does, even allowing for the territory China gained in 1962.

[Terra Nullius]

As far as Ladakh is concerned, India would be attacking from the mountains. China would be attacking into the mountains.

Roughly, India controls one side of the Ladakh Range, China controls the other. There are few passes over the range. The easiest of them is at about 6,000m. None of them is accessible in winter. So any long term mission across the mountains would need to be supplied by air-drops.

Of course, the keystone to this is Kashmir. There are only two roads running from India proper into Ladakh. One road runs directly across the mountains from Himachal Pradesh. It crosses four major passes (5,000m plus) and is inaccesible during winter.

The other road passes through Kashmir. This is the best route for movement and supply of ground troops. It's not always open during winter, but it's far more reliable than the alternative.

Without Kashmir, India could never hold onto Ladakh. And if China captured Ladakh and Kashmir, it would have a (part-time) route into Punjab and on to the Deccan Plateau.

So India is far more vulnerable on this flank, but they do project further into the Himalaya at present than China does.

[Terra Nullius]

Of course, in the unlikely event of a succesful attack by Indian forces across the Ladakh range and into China, they wouldn't gain much, either.

Capturing the Tibetan Plateau and the Takla Makan Desert would not exactly bring China to its knees.

[VetLegion]

Nice images

[Vince278]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Nice images

Indeed.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Colonâ„¢
If that's such a big secret, then why are you telling this on a public forum, in front of a potential audience of one billion people (I bet not even China has censored this site yet)? Aren't you afraid the KGB is going to persecute you?

I think Serb knows full well that everybody knows it already

[Serb]

Even Microsoft incorporates "patches" into their software that allows Bill Gates to do whatever he wants with your PC. And everyone knows that.

Russia does the same with the planes she sell. In case of war against Russia, such planes will be disabled permanently. I think if necessary, we could share this knowledge with any of opposing sides.

[Serb]

Originally posted by VetLegion


Hmmm... it would be very stupid of them to spend billions of dollars on technology which can be remotely disabled from Russia.

But it would hurt Russia's exports even more if something like that was found out. So I doubt you can do it (disable the planes remotely)

I seriously doubt Russia is the only exporter who does it. I guess Yanks do the same with their planes. It's just a necessary precaution.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Sikander


I thought all Russian export (monkey) weapons came pre-disabled from the factory.

All that pre-disabled hardware piloted by Indians can pretty much kick the crap out of your fully-enabled F-15 piloted by US pilots.
Not to mention that the same thing has been done long time ago by Russian piloted Su-27 in fight vs. your F-15 in USA during a "friendly" exercise.


p.s. Somebody said there that Su-30 was a Russian counterpart for F-15. It's not true. The Soviet reply to F-15 was a Su-27. Su-30 is much more advanced plane.

[Terra Nullius]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Nice images

You can't have a serious discussion about strategy without gin-sipping, moustachioed blokes in peaked caps pointing at maps and moving little peices about the board.

Just doing my bit for the war-effort.