Iran takes one more BIG step...

[GePap]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia


no thats wrong. if the treaty is a codefication of an international custom, it is irrelevant whether the country is part of the treaty or not if they did not deposit a protest at the instant the custom emerged.

A custom is not a law and has no binding power. It may be relevant to the attitute other states take, but that's it.

The notion that only 5 states should have nuclear weapons is certainly NOT an international custom. The general repulsion to nuclear weapons overall has done nothing to get the five nuclear powers or the three nuclear powers outside the NPT to move towards no nukes. NK has suffered no real negative diplomatic consequences for its pull out of the NPT.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customary_international_law

"Customary international law results from a general and consistent practice of states followed out of a sense of legal obligation, so much so that it becomes custom. As such, it is not necessary for a country to sign a treaty for customary international law to apply."

[Lawrence of Arabia]

also includes Jus Cogens.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by GePap


That history doesn;t work that way. That it is situation specific.

I know that might be too hard for you to comprehend. That the world is not a comic book, or a script written by some Hollywood writer, but actually a complex series of interrelated events that change quickly.

How is anything in this post inconsistent with what NYE wrote?

[Lawrence of Arabia]

some examples of jus cogens : crimes against humanity, war crimes, piracy, torture, genocide, slavery.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Lul Thyme


when India and Pakistan said **** off to the NPT did you advise bombing them to the ground too?

that part of the argument is very VERY weak.

Whose interests were going to be served by bombing either one of them? They got away with it because they have both avoided massively pissing off any country or group of countries that take on responsibility for maintaining the status quo.

Anyway it isn't at all clear that NYE is really advocating that Iran be bombed. It seems he's simply explaining why nobody should be surprised if Iran's actions lead to aggression against it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

GePap, LoA is entirely on point here. Customary international law is just as much 'law' as treaties are. Jus cogens is even greater, because you can't "treaty out" of jus cogens.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customary_international_law

"Customary international law results from a general and consistent practice of states followed out of a sense of legal obligation, so much so that it becomes custom. As such, it is not necessary for a country to sign a treaty for customary international law to apply."

This does not appear to be the case here.

Also the US's prior unilateral withdrawl from the ABM treaty severely weakens its case.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Because they have WEAPONS!!1

And all countries that have weapons are EVIL!!1 and must be destroyed!!1

ROFL

[GePap]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
some examples of jus cogens : crimes against humanity, war crimes, piracy, torture, genocide, slavery.

Piracy has certainly been condemned for a long time. Care to show how many states have been penalized for any of the others prior to 1945?

In fact "crimes against humanity" is a rather new term legally.
And all those have been codified by now, piracy probably much earlier than the others.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
GePap, LoA is entirely on point here. Customary international law is just as much 'law' as treaties are. Jus cogens is even greater, because you can't "treaty out" of jus cogens.

There is no jus cogens on the nuclear issue. If there were, obviously India, Pakistan, Israel, and NK would have suffered for their actions regarding the NPT. Besides states fulfilling their own requirements under the NPT regarding what activities they can carry out with regards to these states, they have suffered no additional negative diplomatic consequences.

So what "customary law" keeps any state bound by the NPT?

[Ramo]

Sorry, forgot about this thread.

IIUC the EU offered to guarantee the supply of enriched Uranium themselves. Iran could choose to buy from Russia, but the EU would insure they were not cut off.

With a diplomatic situation as precarious as Iran's, any guarantee isn't going to go that far.

AFAIK no nuclear energy program of the limited size of Irans does its own enrichment. Enrichment has high fixed costs, and is only economically justified by a large number of nuclear plants. Most smaller programs rely on imported enriched uranium. Trade in enriched Uranium is routine, and having own enrichment plants is NOT a normal component of energy security.

I'm not sure why you're talking about enrichment plants when I'm talking about a heavy water reactor which can use natural uranium.

[SlowwHand]

Buckle up.

6 world powers agree on Iran incentives
AP - 24 minutes ago

VIENNA, Austria - Six world powers agreed Thursday to offer Iran a new choice of rewards if it gives up suspect nuclear activities or punishment if it refuses, a gambit that could either defuse a global confrontation with the Islamic regime or hasten one. "There are two paths ahead," British Foreign Secretary Margaret Becket said in announcing agreement among the United States, Britain, France, Germany, Russia and China on a package deal for Iran that carries the threat of United Nations sanctions.

Don't miss the underlined this time around, boys.


I'm now taking bets. I say, Iran is going down. Any takers?

[Agathon]

I want the US to invade Iran.

Then we will be rid of your tiresome meddling the sooner.

[SlowwHand]

See ? It won't be the USA. READ. Same problems you're all having now. You don't read.