Does Your Country Subsidize its Shipbuilding?

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Lancer
Yes

I listen to more guys crying the blues as they express their interest in something besides what burned them. Such stories do not usually come from 22 year olds...

Hope you avoid such a fate.

i just think its a bit early to hop on the overseas marriage train. i still have college and spring breaks to look forward to

[Lancer]

Sometimes a person gets brought to their destiny for a reason, so they can see something new. Then, once they accept what they would never before have considered, they find their destiny is not what they considered at all.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Lancer
Sometimes a person gets brought to their destiny for a reason, so they can see something new. Then, once they accept what they would never before have considered, they find their destiny is not what they considered at all.

Lancer, I would have to agree.

For anyone reading Lancer's statement, I agree because he said sometimes.

Like the old proverb, watch what you ask for..........................

Gramps

[Lancer]

Yeah, sometimes you're just plain screwed.

[Q Classic]

It's all harmless enough, if you weren't calling people racist for reacting to your remarks.

Guess it's a moot point to try and explain where it fits in?

As far as the harm in it, I'm quite amused when people take offense on account of others. It brings me joy and a bit of confused curiousity, as I don't understand it.

No, I don't pay that much attention to your posts.

Ah, that would explain why you seem to be missing the larger picture.

But enough to have noticed a trend. Until now, I only chalked it up to an impression that could possibly be wrong.

Don't be silly. Impressions are never wrong.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Q Cubed


Don't be silly. Impressions are never wrong.

You are correct. For an Impression is just that, not necessarily the truth, but a mere impression.

Glad you pointed that out

Gramps

[DaShi]

It just seems that for someone who is so sensitive the Asian issues, you don't seem to care about the issues of anyone else. Somepeople might see the term racist as a serious accusation and not to be used lightly.

So go along with your joy and confused curiosity about causing people to offended and thinking that it's a good thing to be that way. Continue with your belief on impressions. Mine was wrong, you're a lot more petty than I realized. Feel free to hide behind "I was only joking" at any time.

[Q Classic]

It just seems that for someone who is so sensitive the Asian issues, you don't seem to care about the issues of anyone else.

Well, for one, other people's issues need to pass the "do I give a ****" test. Unfortunately, most people's don't. Like this whole "OMG our shipyards aren't profitable" bit. Do I really care? Not really. I do care enough to enjoy taking a piss on the conversation, though.

Now, issues like Asian rights? Those affect me directly, and so do pass the "give a ****" test, with flying yellow banners.

Some people might see the term racist as a serious accusation and not to be used lightly.

Some people might see the term racist as a silly, outmoded accusation and perfect for tossing about willy nilly, like jokes about abortion, rape, and the (what) Holocaust.

Mine was wrong, you're a lot more petty than I realized.

I'm a lot more petty than you think. Indeed, I'll probably forget about this whole exchange in a week or two.

That's two whole weeks you're going to be on my **** list, DaShi.

Feel free to hide behind "I was only joking" at any time.

I'm not hiding behind it when I'm pointing it out. Indeed, I stand behind all my remarks about how stupid I think the allegations are, largely on account of it not being Korea's problem if Croatia can't find a way to be competitive.

As far as the racism charge... I'm sorry you feel offended at that. Really. No, I mean it. I'll begin a program of self-censorship so as to never ruffle your feathers again.

[DaShi]

If this is an example of your **** list, bring it on! I look forward to it.

[DanS]

Strange turns of the conversation...

Q^3: South Korea is notorious for its subsidies of its shipbuilding industry. Vet can hardly be blamed for citing these subsidies, even if he's wrong (or no longer correct). Now that I think about it, South Korea is notorious for its subsidies and market protection of several industries.

Being in the OECD has nothing to do with it. That's not where this stuff is adjudicated.

Lastly, chaebol aren't ordinary conglomerates. For one, they are partially family-owned (similar to some of the Japanese keiritsu) and operated (different than conglomerates in almost all other countries). For another, the families control their operations through less than 50% ownership of the whole and affiliates. Also, there are few of the big ones and they were effectively sponsored by the gov't.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Lancer
Sometimes a person gets brought to their destiny for a reason, so they can see something new. Then, once they accept what they would never before have considered, they find their destiny is not what they considered at all.

have you been reading the alchemist?

[Lancer]

No, but I will now.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by DanS
Q^3: South Korea is notorious for its subsidies of its shipbuilding industry. Vet can hardly be blamed for citing these subsidies, even if he's wrong (or no longer correct). Now that I think about it, South Korea is notorious for its subsidies and market protection of several industries.

Korea has, or has had, market protection in virtually every industry it sought to grow in since the 60's. This would include electronics, automobiles, petrochemicals, steel... Indeed, you'd be hard pressed to find an industry that did not have such protections.

On the other hand, I don't see what was inherently wrong about the process, particularly if other countries managed to carve out niches where they remain successful--or even stay competitive on the whole.

Lastly, chaebol aren't ordinary conglomerates. For one, they are partially family-owned (similar to some of the Japanese keiritsu)

Yes. The major difference between chaebol and keiretsu is the latter also often have their own banks.

and operated (different than conglomerates in almost all other countries). For another, the families control their operations through less than 50% ownership of the whole and affiliates.

Often through tricky deals and shady corporate practices. As is evidenced by the takedown of the Hyundai boss, and a little less recently, an SK exec.

Also, there are few of the big ones and they were effectively sponsored by the gov't.

The biggest one in their pocket was Daewoo, which is no longer in existence in any appreciable form. Hyundai, the other heavy industry heavy-hitter, is no longer as tightly reined together--as in, Hyundai Motors is now mostly independent, with very few links back into the Hyundai group.

===

Subsidies or not, how is it their fault if someone else can't stay competitive? Why is it okay to subsidize agricultural industries, but not commerical ones?

Simply put, Finland seems to be doing fine. Croatia? Either figure out a way to be competitive, or get out of the kitchen.

===

Yeah, DaShi, being on my ****list is a terrible thing. Why, you might even get a snarky comment once in a while!

[Kuciwalker]

Subsidies or not, how is it their fault if someone else can't stay competitive? Why is it okay to subsidize agricultural industries, but not commerical ones?

Neither are OK.

[Cort Haus]

What's interesting about S. Korea is that it was held up for decades as a shining example of the success of unfettered capitalism, while it was benefitting from state planning and intervention all the way down the line.