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The Left simply loves dictators

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  • The Left simply loves dictators

    In another thread, a Euro-poster said that authoritarianism is associated with the right. But, if ever that was true, it can equally be said that the left is now authoritarianism major champion. Chris Hitchens analyzed the phenomenon in a recent article, and called for the left to again (if if they ever) begin supporting democracies.

    Here is an except from http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...157754,00.html

    "So that was what was actually happening on that celebrated “Saturday”. A vast crowd of people reiterating the identical mantras of Ba’athism — one of the most depraved and reactionary ideologies of the past century. How on earth, or how the hell, did we arrive at this sordid terminus? How is it that the anti-war movement’s favourite MP, George Galloway, has a warm if not slightly sickly relationship with dictators in Baghdad and Damascus?

    How comes it that Ramsey Clark, the equivalent public face in America, is one of Saddam’s legal team and has argued that he was justified in committing the hideous crimes of which he stands accused? Why is the left’s beloved cultural icon, Michael Moore, saying that the “insurgents” in Iraq are the equivalent of the American revolutionaries of 1776?

    I believe there are three explanations for this horrid mutation of the left into a reactionary and nihilistic force. The first is nostalgia for the vanished “People’s Democracies” of the state socialist era. This has been stated plainly by Galloway and by Clark, whose political sect in the United States also defends Castro and Kim Jong-il.

    The bulk of the anti-war movement also opposed the removal of the Muslim-slayer Slobodan Milosevic, which incidentally proves that their professed sympathy with oppressed Muslims is mainly a pose.

    However, that professed sympathy does help us to understand the second motive. To many callow leftists, the turbulent masses of the Islamic world are at once a reminder of the glory days of “Third World” revolution, and a hasty substitute for the vanished proletariat of yore. Galloway has said as much in so many words and my old publishers at New Left Review have produced a book of Osama Bin Laden’s speeches in which he is compared with Che Guevara.

    The third reason, not quite so well laid out by the rather 10th-rate theoreticians of today’s left, is that once you decide that American-led “globalisation” is the main enemy, then any revolt against it is better than none at all. In some way yet to be determined, Al-Qaeda might be able to help to stave off global warming. (I have not yet checked to see how this is squared with Bin Laden’s diatribe of last weekend, summoning all holy warrior aid to the genocidal rulers of Sudan as they complete the murder of African Muslims, and as they sell all their oil to China to create a whole new system of carbon emissions in Asia. At first sight, it looks like blood for oil to me.)

    This hectic collapse in the face of brutish irrationality and the most cynical realpolitik has taken far too long to produce antibodies on the left. However, a few old hands and some sharp and promising new ones have got together and produced a statement that is named after the especially unappealing (to me) area of London in which it was discussed and written.

    The “Euston Manifesto” keeps it simple. It prefers democratic pluralism, at any price, to theocracy. It raises an eyebrow at the enslavement of the female half of the population and the burial alive of homosexuals. It has its reservations about the United States, but knows that if anything is ever done about (say) Darfur, it will be Washington that receives the UN mandate to do the heavy lifting.

    It prefers those who vote in Iraq and Afghanistan to those who put bombs in mosques and schools and hospitals. It does not conceive of arguments that make excuses for suicide murderers. It affirms the right of democratic nations and open societies to defend themselves, both from theocratic states abroad and from theocratic gangsters at home.

    I have been flattered by an invitation to sign it, and I probably will, but if I agree it will be the most conservative document that I have ever initialled. Even the obvious has now become revolutionary. So call me a neo-conservative if you must: anything is preferable to the rotten unprincipled alliance between the former fans of the one-party state and the hysterical zealots of the one-god one."
    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

  • #2
    How hard is it to understand, Ned, that both Right and Left have authoritarians? On the Right, for instance, you have Fascism. On the left, Communism.

    -Arrian
    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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    • #3
      To the extent Fascism is leftist, I would agree. But the left always wants to pin the authoritarian tag on the right, when, in fact, it is the left who simply adores dictatorships of any variety. One comes to believe that leftism and authoritarianism are the same thing.
      http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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      • #4
        Should I bother clicking on his posts to read them this time?
        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
        Stadtluft Macht Frei
        Killing it is the new killing it
        Ultima Ratio Regum

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        • #5
          Fascist leftist! Ok, Neddy, whatever you want to believe.

          Edit: comeon, KH, you know you wanna.

          -Arrian
          grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

          The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ned
            To the extent Fascism is leftist, I would agree.
            By definition Facism is rightist and Communism is leftist. That's the very definition of the left right scale.
            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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            • #7
              Not in the Nedaverse. In the Nedaverse, bad = Left and, well, right = Right.

              -Arrian
              grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

              The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

              Comment


              • #8
                This is what happens when people listen to to much rightwing talk radio and don't bother to read books or what objective media.
                Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Objective media? Surely you jest! The media has a well-known Liberal bias! Just like reality

                  -Arrian
                  grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                  The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    To be fair the left right scale is very poor means of measuring political persuasion.

                    Fascism whilst extremely authoritarin did indeed impede free market forces in that it nationalized industries deemed critical for national defense/offense. On the other hand it was very business friendly as long as industries were beholden first and foremost to the state.

                    Again the scales shoudl not be a one dimesnional scale of leftr and right per se but at least two different dimensions speaking towards economic persuasion and societal freedom on separate axis minimally.
                    "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                    “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Oerdin


                      By definition Facism is rightist and Communism is leftist. That's the very definition of the left right scale.
                      Both you and ned are oversimplifying.


                      If you look strictly at issues, and hyperfocus on degree of economic freedom, a case can be made that Libertarianism/classical liberalism are on the right, communism on the left, and fascism, along with progressivism and moderate social democracy, share the center !!!!!

                      IMHO, this kind of thinking appeals to ivory tower academics, and to people suffering from certain disorders that cause them to perceive the world in overly narrow, "logical" terms.

                      In fact, as you point out, in the 1920s, when fascism arose it largely took the role of the far right in Europe. Thats because degree of economic had NEVER been the only issue in European politics, and issues of nationalism, identy, order, etc were rising. So in that sense you are quite right.

                      However the classic Hannah Arendt identification of the similarities of fascism and communism stands (though I dont think she would faciley call them both "left") And in some parts of the 3rd world, where the political history is different from early 20th c Europe, the linkages between far left and fascist influenced right can stand out in different ways. While we must be aware of the "liberal" interest in identifying the two 20th century enemies of liberalism with each other, to the denigration of both, it does not ipso facto mean that analysis is always wrong.
                      "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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                      • #12
                        Fascism isn't an economic ideology. Hence the uselessness of comparing it with capitalism or communism.

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                        • #13
                          The sad thing is that I really do get the sense that Ned is trying to tone down his opinions and connect with people on common ground... but he's just so far out there and over the top that he's incapable of it.

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                          • #14
                            what kind of non sequitar arguement is this? whats going around us ned? is bush a lefty? myopic ned rides again!
                            "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
                            'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger

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                            • #15
                              To his OP point, an arguement can be made in the 21st century PC world that dissenting non PC opinions are more likely to be censored or at least held up to riducule. Case and point 'poly and the treatment of Ned et.al..
                              "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                              “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                              Comment

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