PS3 to be released at $499/$599 & E499/E599

[Asher]

No, but they were stupid to begin with.

It was clear they had no intention of shipping them, they just wanted to present the PS3 as something oh so much better than the Xbox 360. They lied.

The talk of E3 2005 fanboys was "dual 1080p!!! Xbox can't do 1080p!!!" and now it's come out that 99% of PS3 games are single 720p.

[Sava]

jesus christ... $500 for a console?

[laurentius]

I dont think its a lie if PS3 specs have changed a little compared to almost 2 years before its launch.

[Asher]

I think it's a lie because Sony openly promised things that are obviously unreasonable and unlikely to be included before the launch of their competitor.

[laurentius]

Isnt that what most companies do in their ads


Anyway okay maybe they promised too much back then, big deal.

[Asher]

I think it's pretty unacceptable. It's one thing to announce a target and have to downgrade it before release (eg, clockspeeds).

It's another thing to deliberately lie in PR.

[laurentius]

Do you have any proof that they actyally lied deliberately in their PR?

[DanS]

The lie is only important inasmuch as you value the opinion of the PS3 fanboys.

[Asher]

Originally posted by laurentius
Do you have any proof that they actyally lied deliberately in their PR?

Of course not, aside from the fact that all of the stuff they announced made no sense at all and had no chance in hell of being part of the final PS3.

[Sava]

by the time PS3 gets down to a price when I would consider purchasing it... I think Asher will be ripping on Sony for "lying" about the PS6

I've heard people say that PC gaming is dying. On the contrary, I think console gaming is on the way out. With new systems coming out each year (it seems), much the same way ridiculous sequels keep coming out for horrible movie franchises... the prices these systems debut at keep going up and up... it's going to get to a point where gamers are just going to say, "Why don't I just buy a PC?"

Although, I guess if people have money to burn and nothing better to spend it on... why not just keep making ridiculous consoles? At least until people stop buying them. That's the nature of the business. Prices will just keep going up until people decide it's just not worth it. With so many spoiled kids bugging their parents for these things, and so many single guys with disposable income and no social life... hell, why not?

You got the perfect consumer base.

And the best part is... you don't need to make a lot of good games. In fact, it's in companies' best interest to make less good games. That way, people are anticipating the next system... PS4, PS5... XBOX720, XBOX1440... because people are hoping that with that system, MAYBE, there will be better games.


Me? I've got a PC. And it does a lot more than just play games.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Sava

I've heard people say that PC gaming is dying. On the contrary, I think console gaming is on the way out.

Well, the numbers say otherwise.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Verto


Well, the numbers say otherwise.

The overall numbers may be declining... I'm not sure. I haven't seen any figures. Though, I know the fan bases are as involved and even more dedicated than ever before. The mod making communities are growing.

The number of casual gamers may be declining, but I suspect that the number of hardcore gamers is growing... in addition to that, the interest of hardcore gamers is also growing. Which means companies have a loyal and dedicated fan base, which is the most "attractive" demographic, btw, 15-35 year old males... not many industries can count on that.

And when I say "interest", I'm talking about people who care enough to give feedback about products... go on the forums, talk to developers, etc.

With console gaming... you don't get that.

[Skanky Burns]

The "interest" most companys want from their demographic is cold hard cash.

That said, I think if the current trend continues (short product life, higher release prices) and if Sony is unable to offer decent competition to Microsoft then console gaming will be on the way out.

[Asher]

I'm a bit surprised Sony has stopped hyping the graphical capabilities of the PS3. Well, maybe not. They originally called it "Xbox 1.5" but have since shut up and have been pushing bluray...

Look at some of these screenshots of MotoGP for the 360:

[Asher]

And because I get off on this kind of stuff, I've been reading the "Xbox 360 Uncloaked" book by Dean Takahashi. You can buy it online (eBook) here: http://www.spiderworks.com/books/xbox360.php

You can also order the physical book from Amazon.com, and it'll be in brick & mortar stores in ~6 weeks.

Some interesting facts about Xbox 360 development:

- IBM initially proposed many CPU designs to MS, including a 64-core (!) processor (obviously with incredibly simple cores), single-core processor, and 3-core processor. What was agreed upon was a 3-core out-of-order execution processor. However, IBM couldn't get near the target clock speed (3.0GHz) with OOOe, and instead removed it to become an in-order core at 3.2GHz. MS was not pleased.

- Intel and Nvidia were in the running up through 2004 still. Intel was pushing a Pentium 4-derived solution and Nvidia was pushing a G70/7800 derived solution (what ended up in the PS3). ATI and IBM started work in early 2003, not even knowing if they'd win the contract. Intel got the boot because the P4 was way too hot, and Intel wouldn't let MS own the blueprints for future cost reductions. Nvidia got the boot because they pissed MS off severely with the Xbox 1 and they refused to offer a custom GPU.

- MS was expecting a 32-ALU graphics chip, and ATI delivered a 48-ALU graphics chip for the same cost and the target clockspeed.

- The reason for the shortage at launch was the GDDR3 chip they were getting from Infineon (damn Euros) had lots of bad chips. The developers of Project Gotham Racing 3 actually discovered this in their development kits when they started getting corruption. The PGR3 team notified MS and every single Infineon GDDR3 chip had to be hand-tested by MS to ensure it worked properly, and many had to be thrown out.

- The disc format was never an issue. From day 1 it was to be a DVD-ROM based on developer interviews who wanted fast media over larger storage, and MS execs not wanting to gamble in the looming format war and uncertain release dates.

- A huge portion of MS' Xbox staff are former Nintendo execs (headhunted from NOA in Redmond) as well as lots of former Sega employees (Peter Moore brought a lot over when he came to MS).

- The initial console was to come with 256MB of RAM. Tim Sweeney (of EPIC, the architect of the Unreal Engine and Unreal games) personally went to the Xbox execs and demoed Unreal Engine 3.0 with 256MB of RAM vs 512MB of RAM, and pleaded for 512MB. MS relented, which added an extra $900M in costs over the lifetime of the Xbox 360.

-On backwards compatibility: They had found that a tiny fraction of PS2 users had ended up actually using BC and they initially were not going to include it at all. Ed Fries and some others insisted and the concern over servicing customers who consistently used Xbox LIVE (with titles like Halo2 that were not on 360) became an important issue. They actually decided to pursue it forcefully after the chip decisions were made.

Eventually, the team assigned Drew Solomon, a hardcore graphics expert and low-level operating system guru, to head a group of top-notch programmers and engineers. Their mission was to research backward compatibility and assess whether it would be technically possible. Allard referred to this group as the “ninjas,” after elite Japanese assassins. No one would hear a definitive answer from them for a long time. The team had to pursue several different paths to get to their goal of making backward compatibility work through a software emulator.

- It confirmed that the original PlayStation 3 spec by Ken Kuturagi (Krazy Ken) was two Cell CPUs with a simple raster chip, like PS2's design. After two years of work it was obvious this was a dumb idea, and they instead contacted Nvidia in late 2003 and asked for a customized version of their upcoming PC chip.

- On the I/O chips:

While the graphics chip and the CPU were the most time-sensitive, there was a lot of unsung work on the rest of the components. Taiwan’s Silicon Integrated Systems was designing the “south bridge,” or the input-output communications chip that allowed the major chips to communicate with the outside world or the hard disk drive. Adamec said the chip stayed on schedule and never rose high on the radar. That was thanks to an engineer named Yahbin Sim. He had visited Taiwan so often that the manager of the Ambassador Hotel in Taipei took him out to dinner. One of his counterparts at SiS invited Sim over so frequently that the man’s children called him “Uncle Yahbin.”