Go CIA

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Ah, since he's a lefty its quite alright to threaten dictatorship for over 25 years if the opposition decides to boycott the election...

And you wonder why people think you are a bunch of loons.

Isn't trying to shut down the democratic process by boycotting elections then complaining about losing similarly bad?

But then again, I don't really believe that strongly in democracy. It works well in some countries, and in others it leads to the election of Islamic fundamentalists we don't like.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
And you think the opposition is going to boycott the election and then sit idle for 6 years until the next one? Everyone in his right mind knows that they're likely fomenting something.

Remember the 2002 coup?

So if the opposition participates in the election, everything will be nice and peaceful afterwards?

Please. You'd hope the left would have gotten behind someone sane like Luna instead of this idiot who dreams of absolute power everytime he goes to bed.

In what reality is the appropriate response to opposition's threatened boycott, a threat of becoming President for life? Oh right... you two don't live in reality.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Sprayber
And futhermore, any leader that uses this a tactic should be denouced no matter how much you cream your pants when you see him because there should be no room for this kind of **** even as a political tactic. This goes for Bush, Chavez or any other leader in the world. That or those here should shut their damn mouth when they get the urge to lecture about how goverments should be democratic and for the people. They aren't democratic or for the people when they mention changing the rules to allow themselves to stay in longer than they are supposed to. Sure you can spin it any way you want and if it makes you feel better then go ahead, but don't talk here about for the people. It's sickning

[q=Victor Galis]Isn't trying to shut down the democratic process by boycotting elections then complaining about losing similarly bad?[/q]

WTF? That's like saying isn't a punch in the arm and shooting someone in the head similarly bad?

The opposition isn't blameless, by any means (I'm not defending their actions for the past.. how many ever years). But let's not kid ourselves here, Chavez's actions are far worse than the opposition's in these elections.

And if you want to bring up the opposition's attempted coup (which I haven't seen anyone here so far in this thread support), remind yourself that Chavez isn't a stranger to attempting a coup as he tried one himself, using the military in 1992.

[Victor Galis]

No, my principal view is that trying to hold up every country to the same standards we hold ourselves to is counter-productive.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
If the oppostion uses that as a way to set up another coup attempt or to try and call in the Americans or start a civil war, yes. You've seen the lengths to which the Venezeulean opposition has gone to thwart democracy.

And now we see the lengths Chavez will go to.

[Ramo]

Douche. With ****ty policies.

[Colon™]

Berlusconi was pretty popular as well. He still is. Does that mean we just had to put up with the crap he was doing with Italy's political system too? Democracy consists of a little more than just having a popular leader.

[Timexwatch]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
If the oppostion uses that as a way to set up another coup attempt or to try and call in the Americans or start a civil war, yes. You've seen the lengths to which the Venezeulean opposition has gone to thwart democracy.

What would you have Chavez do instead, force them to participate at gun point? He's giving them a choice, run against me or I might ask the people to elect me for life.

BTW, in case you've forgotten, at least one general in the U.S. government did say that if another terrorist attack occurred in the U.S., that we could kiss democracy good bye. Another said that Bush was appointed by God. We aren't so different.

Legitimize my authoritarian government, or else I'll install myself as "President for Life". Great choice

[Berzerker]

1- "he would hold a referendum to put the question of his remaining in office to Venezuelans if the opposition pulls out of upcoming presidential elections."

On first glance this looked real bad but on second thought it looks like a legitimate response to a non-election, hold a referendum to see if the people support you. The rate incumbents in this country win re-election is well over %90 and many elections aren't even contested.

But 25 years Dont give Bush any ideas

[Barnabas]

The difference is berlusconi got less than half of the votes, while chavez would surely get more than half (for a normal 4 years election), for 25 years more I dont thinks so.

[chequita guevara]

I'm not saying I approve of this tactic. I think, however, that it does not prove everything that Oerdin and the anti-democratic opposition has been saying about Chavez over the years.

Let's keep score here: failed coup d'etat, a general lock-out, an attempt to unconstitutionally force an early recall-referendum, and some mob violence against Chavez supporters.

Chavez: some violence against opposition supporters (which may or may not have been ordered from the top), and threatening to maybe hold a refferendum on giving him the presidency for the next 25 years IF the opposition once again shows its contempt for demcoracy by boycotting the elections.

Clearly, one of these two sides has no consideration for democracy whatsoever. The other, maybe, maybe not. Given that one is a potential enemy of democracy and the other an actual enemy of democracy, I'll go with the maybe. If actual events prove me wrong, I'll change my side.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I think you forgot about the coup attempt by Chavez in '92... somewhat conveniently

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Colon™
Berlusconi was pretty popular as well. He still is. Does that mean we just had to put up with the crap he was doing with Italy's political system too? Democracy consists of a little more than just having a popular leader.

But if he was so popular, how come he lost? Italy's democracy functions well enough that the opposition doesn't boycott the elections in an attempt to make them void. Heck, some might argue Italian democracy worked too well, given that they've had what over fifty governments since the end of World War II?

Chavez should have probably picked a shorter term for this referendum, preferably something under 10 years.

[Flip McWho]

They aren't democratic or for the people when they mention changing the rules to allow themselves to stay in longer than they are supposed to.

Ummm why? setting yourself up for a life time rulers job doesn't mean you have to go nuts and start killing a lot of people or making things worse for a group of people.

Granted its often the case, but it doesn't have to go together.

[Colon™]

Originally posted by Victor Galis


But if he was so popular, how come he lost?

You're asking the wrong question: how come that after all his ****s-ups and all his antics to the point of comparing himself with Jesus, he still nigh on won the election?