World Football Thread VIII - The beautiful game?

[DanS]

I was referring to this part of the article. I stand by my observations, counselor.

But even though football is not a mainstream sport in America, the country has been rising in the Fifa rankings for many years and, indeed, has been a fixture in the top 10 for the past 13 months.

[Dauphin]

The US placing is a byproduct of the flawed ranking system, not that they are that good.

They are however improving in terms of World Cup results, which is a better yardstick, since the 90's. Before 1990 I don't think they'd qualified for 40 odd years.

[Dauphin]

Also, did you miss out a 'not' in you original nit-quibble post? I'm confused as to your position as you appear to have changed it, or misplaced emphasis at least.

[DanS]

It's a mainstream sport. It just doesn't have many spectators at the pro/national level. If you visit any town in the US, you will see soccer fields.

[Dauphin]

That's like saying "It's a good car, it just doesn't have an engine".

[DanS]

The pro level may be the engine in the UK and most other places. But it's not in the US. That was the point I made a couple pages ago.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by DanS
It's a mainstream sport. It just doesn't have many spectators at the pro/national level. If you visit any town in the US, you will see soccer fields.

Like I said,

It is NOT a mainstream sport. The only place where there are lot of people in soccer is at the youth level. After reaching the age of majority (or in many cases before hand) the interest fizzles, or the interest in watching the game was never there.

Mainstream sports require a fanbase that watches pro or national level competition. Otherwise, it is just a common sport to play (among certain age groups).

[DanS]

You're looking at it way too narrowly.

As a comparison, take a look at MLS salaries. You have 12 teams. Each of the teams pays a living wage for about 16 people (above $30k per annum). Only about 192 soccer players can support themselves professionally in the MLS. Hardly an engine in sight.

But look at the colleges. Each Division 1 school gives out up to 10 full-ride scholarships for men and 12 for women. Each Division 2 school gives out up to 9 full-ride scholarships for men and 10 for women. There are several hundred Division 1 and Division 2 college programs (400 total?). These are some serious numbers playing soccer competitively who are getting compensated for it.

If you just look at the pros and national level, you wouldn't gain a good sense of what's going on with regard to soccer in the US.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And how many college soccer games are on TV? How many times are they mentioned on Sportscenter? Mainstream sports are in the public's knowledge. I doubt the vast majority of people could name a 'soccer power' in college soccer.

[DanS]

Take a look at your local paper and you will see that soccer is covered.

Take a look at espn.com and you will see that it is one of the 8 major sports covered.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Dauphin
The US placing is a byproduct of the flawed ranking system, not that they are that good.

They were a good side in the last WC.

[duke o' york]

They weren't good, but they had a chance. Mind you, Greece weren't good either (still aren't), but they managed to win Euro 2004.
US footie needs a proper level of professional competition before it can become a mainstream sport. I mean, there are so many teams (and for that matter, players) in the top US American football and baseball leagues that players who are talented but not top-level can still find themselves a game. In the English league, there are 4 divisions worth of top-level players, and another of pros/semi-pros, and countless below them. But if it weren't for the other professional leagues below the Premiership, then talented kids would just give up playing if they didn't think they had a chance of making it there. They may still make it, if they join the right team and learn enough from players who have dropped divisions, but that won't happen in the American game. It's all or nothing.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by DanS
Take a look at your local paper and you will see that soccer is covered.

Hardly. High school soccer champions and the World Cup. Maybe a blurb once in a while on the Silverbacks. The AJC Sports Section devotes 99% of its space to Football (NFL and college), baseball, basketball, hockey, and NASCAR. Soccer gets a bone thrown to it every once in a while.

Not a mark of a 'mainstream sport'

Take a look at espn.com and you will see that it is one of the 8 major sports covered.

Ooooh.. one of only 8! At CBS.Sportsline it is listed in "Other Sports" while Horse racing is one of the 'major sports' covered (when aside from the Kentucky Derby, Preakness Stakes and Belmont most people can't name a damned race). On FoxSports it is listed on the ribbon (with Horse Racing) as it is on SI.com (along with "High School").

And many of the soccer 'ribbons' do a lot of hits based on international web users. ESPN has a decent US based section, but their international soccer stuff is far more detailed (especially Premiership) indicating they are looking there.

Not impressed.

It's going to take a lot more for it to become 'mainstream'. Maybe a greater influx of hispanics.


I'd bet that a vast majority of Americans would have a big problem naming 2 MLS squads. Even 1 may be a struggle.

[Imran Siddiqui]

They may still make it, if they join the right team and learn enough from players who have dropped divisions, but that won't happen in the American game. It's all or nothing.

Well there are lower divisions in US Soccer (no promotion or relegation though, so they are hoping an MLS squad notices them and they get bought up). Though they pay even more crap than MLS (bottom players in MLS get $24,000 a year).

[Colon™]

Greece was the Lordi of the EC. Fun, but you hope it won't ever happen again.

I don't understand what Americans' beef is with a relegation/promotion system. It's darwinism at it's finest.