World Football Thread VIII - The beautiful game?

[MikeH]

Chelsea do play 4-5-1 when they are defending, when they are attacking it's 4-3-3.

Anyway the England line-up (assuming no further injuries) for the first game will be:

Robinson
Neville Terry Ferdinand Cole, A
Beckham Gerrard Lampard Cole, J
Crouch Owen

- FACT!

[Urban Ranger]

Funny thing about Crouch is he's a tall fellow, but his headers aren't that great.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Who the Hell says it has to be a defensive formation?

Play the 5 MF as a 3-2 and have the 2 make offensive runs, kind of like withdrawn forwards.

because 4 - 5 -1 IS a defensive formation. you arnt even playing the counterattack. you leave one guy hanging out to dry all by himself against 4 defenders, your 2 'other attackers' dont even have time to come up to support him before he getes mugged by the entire defense. on top of that they are midfielders, who are never supposed to be in front of the ball, so you'll still be stuck with the same problem. midfielders dont recieve balls when on offense, they distribute them. midfielders are always behind the ball, whether on offense or defense.

[MikeH]

You have very limited respect for the midfielders there. No reason they can't do both jobs, eg Duff, Joe Cole and Robben at Chelsea.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I am a midfielder!

[MikeH]

Anyway 4-5-1 with wingers does move fluidly into 4-3-3 in attack, if you have the right wide players. There is a danger the midfield will sit back and not support the front man but if it's done well you can get some great counter attacking play. Also, one of the 5 midfielders can keep quite an advanced central role for counter attacking. The players England has could play it excellently

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by MikeH
You have very limited respect for the midfielders there. No reason they can't do both jobs, eg Duff, Joe Cole and Robben at Chelsea.

Exactly... it absolutely boggles the mind to say that Gerrard and Lampard can't fulfill offensive roles while playing as attacking MF (or withdrawn forwards if you will). Hell, that's what Gerrard does so successfully at Liverpool!

[MikeH]

And exactly the roles that Joe Cole and Lampard fill at Chelsea too. Chelsea hardly ever play with 2 strikers.

[Cort Haus]

Ronaldinho on Walcott:

"Football has no age. If he has quality, I see no problem in him being included,There is nothing greater than playing in the biggest competition in the world when you are young. He has to enjoy the moment." insisted Ronaldinho.

[Agathon]

Glenn Roeder has been cleared for appointment as Newcastle manager.

Thank God for that. He's been an absolute miracle so far.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Agathon
Glenn Roeder has been cleared for appointment as Newcastle manager.

Thank God for that. He's been an absolute miracle so far.

And what did I tell you a few months ago .

And you thought I was out of my mind asking for Roeder to be full time manager .

[duke o' york]

(You know why. )

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Anyway 4-5-1 with wingers does move fluidly into 4-3-3 in attack, if you have the right wide players. There is a danger the midfield will sit back and not support the front man but if it's done well you can get some great counter attacking play. Also, one of the 5 midfielders can keep quite an advanced central role for counter attacking. The players England has could play it excellently

im telling you, its a mismatch. the other team plays a 4 - 4 - 2 and all of the sudden, youre outnumbered / at even strength in the midfield when the other team recuperates the ball and sends it quickly up the field behind the space vacated by the 'withdrawn strikers/midfielders'

you play 4 - 5 - 1, it transitions to 4 - 3 - 3, now your striker loses the ball, youve got two midfielders waaay out on the wings while the other team is already going the other way with their 4 midfielders and 2 strikers against your three midfielders and 4 defenders

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
you play 4 - 5 - 1, it transitions to 4 - 3 - 3, now your striker loses the ball, youve got two midfielders waaay out on the wings while the other team is already going the other way with their 4 midfielders and 2 strikers against your three midfielders and 4 defenders

And then their midfielder loses the ball and its your 5 midfielders and 1 striker against their 4 defenders and perhaps 1 MF who didn't get too forward.. mismatch can work both ways.

Formation orthodoxy gets you no where... its why the US was so successful last go around, Arena was very flexible with formations depending on the opponent.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

And then their midfielder loses the ball and its your 5 midfielders and 1 striker against their 4 defenders and perhaps 1 MF who didn't get too forward.. mismatch can work both ways.

Formation orthodoxy gets you no where... its why the US was so successful last go around, Arena was very flexible with formations depending on the opponent.

no, since midfielders are always supposed to be behind the ball, its still an advantage to the side who lost the ball (even if you have the midfielder on the strong side caught out of poistion because he was playing with the striker on that side) with a 4 - 4 - 2 ,youve got 7 defenders, the other guys have at most 6, but remember, they dont want to overcommit, so its more like at most 4 or 5 against 7 going the other way.

advantage is till to the guys who play 4 - 4 - 2.

the us made it far because they beat portugal, who their coach later acknowledged that they did not prepare enough to play, and mexico, because their coach shot his team in the foot with a bad substitution.