Has the Establishment Failed us? Is it time to overthrow Generation X?

[Terra Nullius]

Originally posted by DanS
Good luck overthrowing the Baby Boom generation.

... and good luck getting Gen-X to care about it.

Butch: Just what in the hell do you think you're doin?!
Sundance: Stealin' your woman.
Butch: Ugh. Take her! Take her.

[OzzyKP]

Re: Well, if we'd have to generalize generations, then I'd say that the...

Originally posted by VJ
Baby boomers are an ***hole generation spoiled by their WW2-parents. The way how they ****ed their own elderly and are now greedily raising their own pensions is just an invididual demonstration of their selfishness.

If it would be up to them, we'd economically still be stuck in the late 70's, having perma-stagflation and consumer goods invented before 1960. But it's not the economy which is the only part of our world they have ****ed for us, covering even small fraction of what they've ruined would easily fill a book.

Edit: BTW LoA, your OP is an excellent and inspiring rant.

VJ

An excerpt from an interview with a Baby Boomer who really hates Baby Boomers:

Alex – Finally, to wrap up, I just want to ask about the phenomena of the Baby Boomers and how they have completely repressed and turned on their kids. Perhaps moving beyond just the generation but also how when you have generational warfare that it doesn’t just stop as adults vs. youth it translates after those youth grow up and they stick their parents in a home and never see them again. And the retribution of the generation war as it comes full circle and the people who were once putting down on one side are now on the receiving end. How do people in that position that can call a truce in the generation war, choose not to even though they hold the cards and ultimately suffer the price as well.

Mike - First, I think that Baby Boomers are the rottenest generation in the history of the world. There may have been rottener generations, but I’m not aware of them. And also have no excuse for being rotten. We’re wealthy, we’re privileged, we’re pampered, as a generation, we were subsidized more than practically any generation by government, by our parents and grandparents. We came along at a time when there was still opportunities for cheap housing, graduate from school with little or no debt, get into business and become wealthy. On the backs of previous generations who have supported us very much and we have turned around and basically said we want to cut our taxes, we want as much money as we can get, we want to screw over our kids and now we are to the point of shoveling our debt onto them. All within a generation.

We have gone from old supporting the young to the young being forced to support the old. Cutting out school opportunities, raising tuitions, closing schools – what does it take to shock people? We actually have schools shutting down in California – I don’t know what the situation is in the East but we have schools closing. We have sports programs that are being cut out. We had a group of students hike from Oakland to Sacramento to protest the shutting down of their school’s art program, band and everything else because they had no money. The governor wouldn’t even meet with them.

It’s very shocking to me the extent of baby boomer’s greed and self-centeredness. And also our belief in our actions to isolate ourselves from the problems this creates. Not just gated communities and condominiums but this obsession with policing and security and building more prisons and things like that. If there’s a problem with what we’re doing we’ll just get more police. It’s loony. That’s self-destructive and it’s certainly destructive to society. We have no excuse for this. We know better. This is a generation with an awareness of issues like civil rights of the need for more equality in society, the limits of prisons and policing and war as solutions to problems. And yet we perpetrate them as much as our parent’s generation, in fact even more so. Certainly we would deserve that kind of “Wild in the Streets” solution where the younger generation gets fed up with our behaviors, takes over as in that movie which was made in 1968; they succeed in getting the vote for 15-18 year olds.

Alex – I thought it was 14.

Mike – Well they started out with 14, but had to compromise with 15. So anyway, they succeeded in getting the vote, and succeeded in getting an 18-year-old president. A lot of this was also by pouring acid in DC’s water supply so the Senate gives them all the power, sitting around laughing. And they wind up putting all the people over 30 or 35 in concentration camps where they are fed acid all the time to keep them happy.

Well, I could think of a worse thing to do to Baby Boomers maybe that would actually make a lot of them happy. I don’t think the younger generation is in the mood to retaliate, I haven’t seen that particular attitude. “You cut our schools; we’re going to cut your social security. We’re going to take action to get you back.” I think younger people are still under this delusion that older people naturally support them. That there’s just this natural social order to things, and older people will act in their best interests. One of the reasons younger people don’t vote very much. I’m hoping they are getting over that delusion. I hope they are getting enough shocks to their system and realizing it hasn’t always been this way. That’s another disadvantage of being young that you don’t realize it wasn’t always this way. Older people haven’t always acted like this. It wasn’t normal to have grown ups behaving in this kind of selfish and detached manner; disregarding the interests of younger people. So while Baby Boomers would deserve a lot of retaliation I don’t see that mood now.

I do see that happening however if Baby Boomers – we’re just beginning to take power, that’s the scariest thing – Clinton was the first Baby Boom president, an absolutely horrible president. Bush is even worse, the second Baby Boom president. We’re going to see 3 or 4 or 5 more. As well as congresses and government and churches and politics and everything dominated by Baby Boomers. It’s just beginning. If we don’t get a grip on ourselves it’s only going to get worse. If Baby Boomers act so outrageously, and I know think we are very much capable of this, by taxing 40% of the income of younger people to pay for Social Security because we haven’t saved a whole lot of money. When we retire, we’re going to have some shocks to our sumptuous lifestyle that most of us have gotten used to – not me *laughs*. I mean as a generation, again I’m talking generational terms, not every one of us.

I think we are perfectly capable of that, we think that more prisons and police are going to solve the problem, we’re going to continue to elect politicians because our electoral power will continue to be here for the next probably 20 years, so we will have the power to electorally arrange things in our favor at every stage of society. If we continue to do that, especially at the pace we’re doing it now, I’m not sure what younger generations are going to do. I can’t even predict. Prediction sounds silly, is it going a revolution, are they just going to take it and sink into apathy – I don’t see that happening. I’m not sure what’s going to happen. I think it’s going to be a very bad situation for the next 10-15 years, and maybe after that.

As far as who can call a truce for this, well the people in power are responsible. Right now that’s not happening; I don’t see any signs that’s going to happen. I don’t see any indications that this idea you can’t just keep cutting services, cutting education, raising tuitions, no new taxes for wealthier and older people, that we can indulge any kind of lifestyle we want. That we can vote in any kind of politicians that we want that will protect us. I don’t see that attitude diminishing at this point. Or the consequences of it being recognized.

I think an organized movement of younger people, and its beginning to come as people I think in their 20’s as well, could if they take on generational issues and stop getting diverted into other issues, as an issue of principal importance can make an impact. It’s difficult to do for younger people, but I think if they do we’re going to see the one thing that would get Baby Boomer’s attention that is the idea that there are organized groups younger than them that are not going to continue to support the kind of selfishness and the society that Boomer’s want to create. And let me repeat, is not a successful society.

We can’t pay to imprison as many people as we are. We also can’t pay to have 45-year-old drug addicts continue to commit endless series of crimes. I’ve debated police and prosecutors; this is a very hard population to deal with. They are more skilled at crime, they are severely addicted, they have to commit endless series of property crimes and sometimes to violent crimes to attain money for drugs and it’s a horrendous burden for society. The only thing to do is eventually to lock them up or try to treat them, both of which are very expensive. This is not a successful society, and it’s not viable. I can think of 500 different ways that its not. So younger people want to change that, and if so, they need to organize.

Alex - Well thank you very much.

[SlowwHand]

Ozzy, you're treading on thin ice. You're no spring chicken.

[Elok]

Come to think of it, which years effectively demarcate "Generation X?" I generally just think of it as people in their late twenties/early thirties. Maybe mid thirties. All I know is that I'm too late, being born in 1983.

As for the OP, I'm not sure why the succeeding generation will do any better, strictly speaking. After all, the one before the BB was still segregated, staggered through the Great Depression, and invented the nuclear bomb. When the torch is eventually passed, it'll be to us, the antisocial Internet Generation, and that's kind of scary.

[chequita guevara]

We're after the boomers but before Gen Y. Starts in 1966, I don't know when it goes to. Probably the late 70s.

[SlowwHand]

BUT, your problem. How you deal with it is what you pass to your children. Have fun.

[Richelieu]

Why don't y'all just f... f... f...faaade away.

[Barnabas]

gen x are people who were teenagers in the early middle 90´s.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
gen x are people who were teenagers in the early middle 80´s.

Fixed

[Elok]

According to Wikipedia, our standard source for quick and dirty data of questionable accuracy, Gen X was roughly 1961-1981, something like that. Everyone after until around 9/11 is frequently judged to be in Gen Y or the Internet Generation by demographers. The whole demarcation is a thoroughly artificial and fairly arbitrary thing anyway.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Okay, let's do this point by point

the ruling class failed to stop terrorists before they achieved the most spectacular terrorist attack in history.

Assumming they could have been prevented, neither Cheney nor Rumsfeld -- the two most powerful people in the White House on 9/10/2001, including the president -- are boomers.

theyve run the government finances into the ground

Actually, if you'll recall, it was boomers who made the government solvent in the 90s. But they were just dealing with the errant policies of non-boomers Reagan and Bush I. As for the current administration's policies, it was non-boomer Cheney who publically declared "deficits don't matter."

the ruling class has not found a solution to getting off oil from a region where we must prop up despots

This has been a problem since the twin sucker-punches of the 1970s (the OPEC Embargo and the Iranian Revolution), when no boomers were in charge.

they have morally bankruped the nation with bribery and corruption scandals,

Number of Boomers involved in Watergate: 0
Number of Boomers involved in Iran-Contra: 0
Number of years before the Boom that Duke Cunningham was born: 4
Number of years before the Boom that Dan Rostenkowski was born: 18

gerrymandering

A term coined in the 18th century to describe what was then already a common practice.

self serving pay raises

Which had never, ever happened before, right? But the 27th amendment which disallows Congressional pay raises from going into effect until an intervening election, was first proposed in the 18th century but was forgoten until resurrected by Boomer Gregory Watson

the hypocricy of dealing with china while refusing to talk to fidel, of talking about american values and traditions and civil rights while at the same time ignoring them or taking them away

Hey! I remeber this criticism! Seems to me it first became part of American political discourse in the 1960s, when it was voiced by those long-haired, pot-smoking, peacenik...Boomers.

maybe its time for you to move over and let the younger generation take over before we become corrupted just like you

I've seen your generation. It plagiarizes books and jopurnalism articles to further its career. It kills people for their Nikes. Given the chance to confront a president, it asks, "Boxers or Briefs"? It is the primary demographic for Reality TV.

In other words -- too late! Still, it's always cathartic to tell the old folks off; hope you feel better now.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
gen x are people who were teenagers in the early middle 90´s.

that doesn't seem right. It's people who are in their late 20's or 30's today. I was a teenager during the late 80's and up to 1992.

[Dis]

ahh yes, the ole' boxers or briefs. Well, that's what happens when you have a woman ask a president a serious question. . I don't know what it is about Bill, but women wanted in his pants. He didn't seem that attractive to me...

[Agathon]

Why are you just blaming the boomers?

Not that I don't agree with a lot of what you have said, but it goes much deeper, I think. The baby boom generation is the counterculture generation – the generation of "cool". Younger people operate under the same basic belief system: individuality over the group and authenticity over conformity.

What it took me a long time to realize is that it is these values that create modern capitalism. Hippies are not really opposed to capitalism, they are capitalism in a purer form. Ask yourself what drives modern consumerism: is it the desire to conform, or the desire to stand out and be authentic and different?

Of course it is the latter. We hype up a society in which everyone has to be different, and then wonder why people spend so much money trying to keep up with the Joneses. Someone mentioned Thorstein Veblen the other day – he should be required reading in all schools. Individualistic economic choices are market choices, by definition. Collective spending equals conformity. Is it any wonder that social goods (goods that the market sucks at providing) are neglected whilst consumerism runs rampant? Of course not. Almost every country is not spending enough on social goods. Yet we complain as we spend more and more money on individual consumer spending.

It's fallacious to think that our generation will be any different, since we are fixated on the same individualist social metaphysics as our parents.

Conservatives worked this out a long time ago, which is why there is no surprise that people like Ronald Reagan and George W Bush get elected. People are quite happy to take tax cuts they know they will get rather than hold out when they don't know whether they will really benefit from collective spending. Again it is a collective action problem, one that afflicts English speaking countries more than others for cultural reasons.

The very same people who complain about corporations running everything are those who vote for people like Bush or Kerry, who are the same in this respect. Why is this? Because the liberal democratic system is effectively designed to produce such governments (and does so in most countries that have it). If you give every person a vote, and most people vote out of self interest, then you will get poor results because the things the government is meant to manage are the things that simply cannot be funded by the market model since they are subject to market failure. This was masked by the Keynesian revolution, but now that revolution is long dead, the essential problems of democracy are readily apparent.

Here's something to think about. People often believe that governments are less accountable to the voters than in the past. In fact the reverse is true. 40 years ago it was very difficult for politicians to effectively gauge public opinion. Now with modern methods of polling and so on, political parties can get a very good idea of what individuals will vote for, much more so than they used to be able to. This makes elections even more like market transactions (I think the name given to this is "public choice" theory), but since government exists in the main to correct for the failures of the market, the more that we go down this road, the more that market failures will characterize our society.

And please don't claim that the proletariat are brainwashed by the media. Most people believe that everyone is brainwashed by the media, except themselves. What this really means is that people simply disagree, which is normal. The funny thing is that people complain about the media, and then go to see films which are almost all anti-capitalist manifestos (because people like the idea of the authentic individual standing up against the system), when in fact these values are exactly what drive contemporary capitalism.

If you don't understand that contemporary anti-capitalist culture is the norm, then I don't know which movies you have been watching. What you need to understand is that this anti-capitalist culture is not working against the "capitalist system" – rather it is the capitalist system (in the words of a former colleague). The culture of individuality and authenticity is what drives contemporary capitalism. Look at what most people spend their discretionary income on – status goods of one sort or another. There is no essential difference between a lawyer buying an expensive BMW and a goth spending a fortune on a new tattoo – it's the same thing.

[Barnabas]

If you were a teen in 1993 then you would be in your late 20´s 30 nowadays.