The denegrate historical figures thread

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
On the plus sides, she was a dope-smoking nymphomaniac.

A typical Victorian-age person. Nothing wrong with that.

[mrmitchell]

For worst presidents it would be hard to top Nixon or Carter, at least in my lifetime.

What did Carter do? I know he wasn't that great, but he couldn't have been as bad to be in the same category as Nixon.

Besides, if Carter is bad, Ford is definitely worse. He pardoned Nixon.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by mrmitchell
Besides, if Carter is bad, Ford is definitely worse. He pardoned Nixon.

Ford was okay. I worked on his re-election campaign. If the pardon was his only problem then he did great compared to everyone else. What people don't realize is that he pardoned Nixon to save the nation the embarassment and possible precedent of a president being prosecuted. Nixon's fall and disgrace was bad enough. He made a brave and difficult decision.

Carter was not ready for national, and international, politics. He'd make a great president of Sesame Street or Mr. Rodger's Neighborhood but he didn't have what it took to manage any nation. I don't think any other president, past or future, would have let the Iranian hostage crisis last 444 days.

[Zkribbler]

Carter was one for our brighter Presidents but he had difficulty making up his mind. He also foolishly trusted the Soviets ... at least until they invaded Afghanistan.

He's often flayed by Republicans for his insistence in foreign policy that the U.S. support democracy around the world and that morality has a place in international diplomacy. They argue that such a position is unrealistic. (I think it was a badly needed breath of fresh air after decades of the U.S. supporting bloody dictatorships around the world.)

BTW: I remember in one threat we were recounting Presidential lies. Ford and Carter were the only two Presidents I could think of (starting with FDR) who didn't tell lies to the American people.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


JFK and his administration conceived of most of the proposals. However, he didn't have the political savvy to push them through Congress. LBJ did.

JFK was the handsome Prince of Camelot.
LBJ was a ironfisted unsophisticated bully.

So yeah, JFK gets the credit.

I also hate american Princes..

JM

[Berzerker]

Carter was one for our brighter Presidents but he had difficulty making up his mind. He also foolishly trusted the Soviets ... at least until they invaded Afghanistan.

His administration was trying to provoke a Russian invasion

[Vince278]

Yes, weakness and indecision invites trouble. The world can be like a pool of sharks.

[Alexander's Horse]

Carter had a lot of bad luck - he inherited a US military gutted by Vietnam and the US economy was in poor shape with the oil crisis, inflation and unemployment.

Then the Iran hostage crisis pretty much destroyed his Presidency.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


JFK and his administration conceived of most of the proposals. However, he didn't have the political savvy to push them through Congress. LBJ did.

JFK was the handsome Prince of Camelot.
LBJ was a ironfisted unsophisticated bully.

So yeah, JFK gets the credit.

JFK was the martyr. Before his death the civil rights movement and a variety of liberal programs like Medicare faced a wall of apathy. After his death the opponents of these programs looked just plain ugly. If it were not for Kennedy's death LBJ would not have been able to get the Civil Rights Act and the other Great Society legislation past Congress.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
If it were not for Kennedy's death LBJ would not have been able to get the Civil Rights Act and the other Great Society legislation past Congress.

I'd like to think JFK would have accomplished everything had he lived.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Playful
Marilyn Monroe

Not far enough back in history to count?

Perhaps, but her complete future non-entity status more than makes up for it. I guess in the 1950s the only way a guy was going to screw anyone other than their wife was if the woman was crazy explains her appeal. She always just grossed me out though.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Vince278


He was inspirational. I also was one of those inspired by his example.

For worst presidents it would be hard to top Nixon or Carter, at least in my lifetime.

Nixon certainly has JFK beat in accomplishments by a mile, but he did a lot of damage to the political system. Carter was incredibly naive, but he wasn't as bad as he is remembered. As Horse says, he was the victim of a lot of things that weren't under his control, not the least of which were the economy, the Democrat party and Congress. His later actions, Carter Doctrine, Camp David, and beginning of the rebuilding of American military might are pretty good though.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
On the plus sides, she was a dope-smoking nymphomaniac.

I say that all the time about my ex-girlfriends.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Zkribbler

JFK and his administration conceived of most of the proposals. However, he didn't have the political savvy to push them through Congress. LBJ did.

JFK was the handsome Prince of Camelot.
LBJ was a ironfisted unsophisticated bully.

So yeah, JFK gets the credit.

I find little evidence of either the necessary political acumen or the will to accomplish what LBJ did in JFK. His vision for his own administration seemed to contain very little of what LBJ eventually did. I'm in fact calling BS on your claim that most of what Johnson accomplished was in fact originally the idea or plan of JFK or his administration. His administration in fact compares unfavorably to Eisenhower's on civil rights, which is damning really considering how quickly things were moving at that time.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Sikander
and beginning of the rebuilding of American military might are pretty good though.

That was Reagan. Carter gutted personnel and concentrated on many unneeded programs. The military didn't start going downhill again until Clinton.