Where's my gun?

[Dr Strangelove]

I don't think you really appreciate the nature of terror in the middle east. The current round of attacks are designed with the intent of uprooting parts of the population in the hopes that the resulting demographics will improve the situation of the faction making the attacks. The Sunnis are trying to drive the Shiites out of large areas of central Iraq in the hopes that they will be able to politically dominate those areas. So far 100,000 have been displaced by those attacks, so I wouldn't label them penny ante.

[Straybow]

Terrorism is a form of political violence - just like war. You can't end terrorism anymore than you can end war.

What? Terrorism is political? I thought terrorists were fighting for Truth and Righteousness. That's never political. They've got Muhammed and the Koran on their side.

Might as well say "you can't end terrorism any more than you can end politics." Terrorism can be ended as a legitimized means in the international community. Too many leftists and other wackos would rather fawn over the latest cause celeb (which happens to advance by terrorism) than make a stand and condemn the terrorism.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Straybow
What? Terrorism is political? I thought terrorists were fighting for Truth and Righteousness. That's never political. They've got Muhammed and the Koran on their side.

And we Americans, supposedly, are fighting for truth and freedom with God on our side etcetera and so forth. The fact that religious ideology factors into an act does not make it less political. On the contrary, terrorism is always political; it seeks to achieve political ends. Just listen to bin Laden's demands on tape from years ago - stop supporting Israel, get US troops out of Saudi Arabia, and so on.

Might as well say "you can't end terrorism any more than you can end politics." Terrorism can be ended as a legitimized means in the international community. Too many leftists and other wackos would rather fawn over the latest cause celeb (which happens to advance by terrorism) than make a stand and condemn the terrorism.

Why is it that I think your response to other types of political violence - like war - might be different? Can we end war as a legitimized means in the international community? If we can, is it a feasible goal in the short term? Do people who talk about "world peace" fawn over the latest "cause celeb," or are they taking a stand?

In the forseeable future, I would say that terrorism cannot be ended so long as organized violence remains a part of human society. Terrorism is simply our nomenclature for the kind of political violence that ensues when one party is vastly weaker than the other, and adjusts its tactics accordingly. It is, essentially, the poor man's psyops. War is equally a form of political violence, save that it is between states. Why is it that so many people, especially rightists and conservatives, would laugh at an effort to end war but think that an effort to end terrorism is feasible, or even possible?

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
Just listen to bin Laden's demands on tape from years ago - stop supporting Israel, get US troops out of Saudi Arabia, and so on.

"first I want you to convert to Islam."

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Whoha
"first I want you to convert to Islam."

Meaning....

Terrorism can have religious aspects; many acts do. Few, however, can be described as only religious. Bin Laden's brand of terrorism certainly can't. Palestinian terrorism is also overtly political, as is the terrorism of Hezbullah. The terrorist acts perpetrated in Iraq, against US forces or rival ethnic groups, are clearly political. The fact that religion is tied up in the mix doesn't change that.

[Admiral]

Originally posted by Whoha


"first I want you to convert to Islam."

The mistake when it comes to assigning political motives to bin Laden that many make is to assume that America is his audience. Yes, he targets Americans. But I'd argue that his political interests lie wholy within the Middle East.

Which is a problem when it comes to most religious groups that advocate/commit violence. We see that they commit violence, and we hear that they do it in the name of God, and we think that they do it for religious purposes. They don't. Take Egypt, as an example. Over the years, there has been a reasonable amount of violent activity commited by the Muslim Brotherhood, an extremist religous group. But the goal of the Muslim Brotherhood is to control the state of Egypt. They may have religious reasons for wanting to control Egypt, but there goal is still political in nature.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Straybow

What? Terrorism is political? I thought terrorists were fighting for Truth and Righteousness. That's never political. They've got Muhammed and the Koran on their side.

Trying to create a caliphate is a political aim. Seems simple enough a thing to understand. At least, it should be.

Might as well say "you can't end terrorism any more than you can end politics." Terrorism can be ended as a legitimized means in the international community. Too many leftists and other wackos would rather fawn over the latest cause celeb (which happens to advance by terrorism) than make a stand and condemn the terrorism.

Terrorism has NEVER been legitimate. Maybe you missed out on this (not that I would find that surprising). Hence the name, 'genius'. It is a tactic of the weak, and therefore invariablty used against those that define what is legitimate. Henceforth those powers that decide what is accepatble and what isn;t will declare a strategy used by the weak against them as invariably illegitimate.

As for your sad and pathetic "lefty" troll, it wasn;t Carter calling Jonas Savimbi a great "freedom fighter."

[GePap]

Oh, and Straybow:

when will right wing ideologues like yourself realize that osama Bin Laden is one of you? Islamic fundamentalism is a form of right wing ideology, which is why Reagan and his admin. was so willing and happy to give billions to Islamic fundamentalists- because they hate relativism and humanism and socialism just as much as, well, YOU.

Osama and you (and the other right wing ideologues) share the notion of absolute good and evil, and the perverse idea that this absolute and fundamental "right and wrong" means that some people simply deserve to die, and the mania that you (or he) can decide who those people who should die are.

In the end of the day, your ideology of black and white is a hundred times closer to what osama bin laden believes than what some moral relativist like myself believes.

Capish?

[Flubber]

Just curious but does anyone know what Cuba is doing to be on the bad guy list ??

[MRT144]

ask cuban exiles, those idiots

[Vince278]

Yeah, and they're probably joining tomorrow immigrant boycott too.

[MRT144]

i have no shame in advocating the murder of every cuban exile

[Vince278]

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Agathon
It is a joke. More people die from accidental falls.

Donkeys kill more people a year. Fact.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
I don't think you really appreciate the nature of terror in the middle east. The current round of attacks are designed with the intent of uprooting parts of the population in the hopes that the resulting demographics will improve the situation of the faction making the attacks. The Sunnis are trying to drive the Shiites out of large areas of central Iraq in the hopes that they will be able to politically dominate those areas. So far 100,000 have been displaced by those attacks, so I wouldn't label them penny ante.

The ironic thing about that is, this is a result of the invasion of Iraq, which was supposedly an attempt to reduce terrorism, esp. that on the US and Usians...