Tel Aviv bombing is part of self-defense: Hamas

[Imran Siddiqui]

But which side?

[Barnabas]

I have a silly question

Why not give back Gaza to egypt, the golan heights to syria and the bank to Jordan? and so the palestinians from gaza become egyptians, those from the wbank jordanians and the people from the golan heights syrians.

Aint that easier than creating a palestinian state?

Of course, before giving back those lands those countries should sign some deal and say the accept israel blah blah etc

[Kuciwalker]

I don't think that Jordan wants Palestine back.

[Kuciwalker]

Kind of like Spain and Florida.

[Barnabas]

Why wouldnt the?

It would increase their territory a lot, and If I recall correctly it is more fertile.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Jordan doesn't like the Palestinians since the Pals tried to kill the Jordanian king.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
Why wouldnt the?

It would increase their territory a lot, and If I recall correctly it is more fertile.

They have issues with the natives.

[GePap]

Israel doesn;t want responsibility for the Palestinians-it ruins their dream of a state both Jewish and democratic. Of course, I doubt they have a clue as to how to really do either a trully democratic state based on ehtnic identity, or how to divorce themsleves from the Palestinians without becoming resoonsible for a humanitarian crisis.

Oh well. Too bad for everyone between the Jordan and the Mediterranean.

[Dinner]

I honestly truly believe that the Palestinians bare 90%+ the blame for any continuing conflict since they are the ones who rejected a perfectedly good final peace deal in 1999 and who continue to endorse terror. I do have serious problems with a society who demands the protections of the Genveva Convention yet continually and deliberately subverts it to conduct deliberate bombings of civilians.

The real solution won't occur unless all of one side gets killed or forced out. I personally would not cry for the Palestinians if it was them because they've earned it. Is that rational? No, but it is how I feel at this time. The Palestinians already make up the majority in Jordan so the rest of the population should simply be forced to move there and they can build there state in the current defacto Palestine.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Perfectly good final peace deal?! A deal that splits your country into 4 enclaves with 3 enclaves (in the West Bank) fully enclosed by the other side is NOT a perfectly good final peace deal!

[techumseh]

Most of the Palestinians are refugees, whose land was confiscated by Israel. You can't solve the crisis until you deal fairly with that.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Looking back on this time from the future, Hamas getting elected may be the best thing for any true peace process, even though it seems dicey now. You, after all, are now forced to deal with this group, whereas before you didn't.

Yep yep. After all, Sharon is the one who managed to make the most serious steps the Israelis ever made.

[Guardian]

Excuses are like @ssholes - everyone's got one.

No matter what happens and no matter what one side does, one can always point at something the other side did and argue that this is the real reason and this is the real problem, etc. So, when an Israeli missile attack kills people in Gaza, we are told that it's the PA's fault for not stopping terrorism - and when a Palestinean youth blows himself and 13 others to pieces on a bus somewhere inside an Israeli city, we are told that it's really Israel's fault for not ending the occupation and "oppressive policies" against the Palestineans, etc, etc...

How convenient, eh?
The problem is that it's not very rational and also not very productive. First of all, we all have to take responsibility for our own actions, no matter what anybody else does. Sure, if someone blows up a bus in my hometown and my little daughter is injured or even killed, I have a right to be upset, I have a right to take reasonable action to prevent further attacks and I have a right to seek to have those responsible brought to justice. But if I respond by firing missiles at my neighbors and those missiles hit something they shouldn't have, then I still have to take responsibility for that because no matter what anyone else did and no matter what I meant to hit, I was the one who fired the missiles. If I refuse to accept this responsibility, then I am not only being irrational and unreasonable, but I am also denying myself access to any form of peaceful settlement to my problems because peace can only exist between responsible partners and any party that refuses to take responsibility for its' own actions is clearly… ummm… not responsible!

That said, I must concede that we do have a real problem with Hamas and their handling of this latest attack.

You may claim self defense when an enemy is invading your home and threatening you and your loved ones, but NOT when you're blowing up civilians who are not threatening anyone at the moment.

Any government who claims otherwise is also clearly not responsible!

[Sikander]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
Wait, if the Palestinians are now some sort of quasi-independant nation/state, wouldn't Israel's recent attacks/strikes against targets in Palestinian lands constitute acts of war? Must be since Hamas voicing support for the actions of other groups constitutes an "act of war" against Israel. So technically, Israel already declared war. So how's about stfu before KH school's you some more?

Hamas has a policy far more explicit than anything the Nazi party had in place regarding the destruction of the Jews. Their very existence is a de facto state of war with Israel, and anything the Israelis do to them is fine by me until this changes.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
I have a silly question

Why not give back Gaza to egypt, the golan heights to syria and the bank to Jordan? and so the palestinians from gaza become egyptians, those from the wbank jordanians and the people from the golan heights syrians.

Aint that easier than creating a palestinian state?

Of course, before giving back those lands those countries should sign some deal and say the accept israel blah blah etc

In 1988, during the first intifadah, the government of Jordan officially renounced its claims to the West Bank. there were several reasons - 1. The rest of the arab world had recognized the PLO as the sole rep of the Pal people, and the Jordanian claim tended to isolate them in the arab world. 2. It created a threat to the Jordanian govt from the PLO which has many sympathizers in the Jordanian population, about half of whom are descended from folks who were either migrants or refugees from west of the Jordan river. 3. Taking over the West Bank would be a mess, and wouldnt necessarily add to the power of the Jordanian state - and it WOULD give Palestinians on both banks an overwhelming majority in the Jordanian state, which non-Pal Jordanians are NOT keen on.

I have addressed the history of the "Jordan option" before on this forum.