A question about the Christian theory of creation

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Err, you know that catholcism is also Paulian Christianity?

Non paulian Christianity is Gnosticism, Arianism, or other such things. The Jehovah Witnesses are probably not part of Paulian Christianity, the Mormons might not be either.

Jon Miller

Jon Miller

Indeed. There is enough of St. Paul's hands on Christianity's teachings, that it could easily be called Paulism.

[SlowwHand]

If teachings were the only consideration, that would be very true.

[beingofone]

deleted

[beingofone]

Whaleboy,
Just because you cover all the logical conclusions you have heard, does not mean there are`t any more.

How in the heck are ya?

Now if we accept in our definition of the universe that that means "everything that exists", then God existed before everything existed. Obviously there is a contradiction there, which is itself a pretty standard refutation of the Cosmological argument pro God but we'll ignore that for a second.

Unless of course God is beyond "existence".

How about this - God does not exist but is certainly real and can be experienced. In fact you are experiencing God this very moment.

If you look for God you will never find him as the entire time you are searching, you are finding who/what he is not 'where' he is.

If God existed before the universe, then God was the only thing that existed, and if you want to play semantics, then at the time God was the "universe"; pantheism in other words.

The Christian who wants to believe in the concepts of the holy trinity, and heaven+hell, would have to redefine the universe in order to refute this pantheist conclusion. Accepting the existence of God, and that God created the universe, I think that pantheism in this sense is an inescapable conclusion.

Is it possible to be totaly partial?

You are applying great emphasis on the limitations of thought, reason, consciousness, and experience. You are implying that the limitations cannot be overcome. To make this assertion is to be unaware that the very fact that something is believed to be limited implies that the limitation is already transcended.

A limit can only be determined by its opposite, meaning there are no restrictions when it comes to consciousness and truth. If you have determined that there are limitations, the opposite must be true by default.

Logic requires comparisons in the finite and as such we must have a basis of communication. The infinite is beyond any logical construct - that does not exclude God from reality at all.

In fact it is an inescapable conclusion of comparisons of finite/infinite of ultimate reality that God is the ultimate reality.

So put that in your smoke and pipe it.

[beingofone]

Do`h - double post sorry

[FrostyBoy]

There is a website, where a christian-"scientist" attempts to explain the paradox's/theories against the existance of God.

Over and over again, he comes up with the same answer, basically something like: God does not exist in our dimension, he exists in all dimensions, therefore in one specific demension he can make 1+1=4.

However, can God make 1+1=4 in OUR dimension?

Thus God is not almighty, thus the Christian perception of God does not exist, but only in our very powerful and complex minds.

[Jon Miller]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

But BS against the concept of god, or BS for the concept of god, all is still BS.

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Basically, I have never heard of or seen a serious paradox or theory against the existence of God...

And some guy on the net being not a serious reply doesn't surprise me at all.

Also, universe has numerous different meanings. Everything that exists is not the definition of universe for some ambitious physics theories. Nor is it everything that exists for some philosophy.

Jon Miller

[Sandman]

According to theists, God created the universe. When asked who created God, they'll say that he just inexplicably exists.

David Hume pointed out that you could just as easily say the universe inexplicably exists, and leave God out of it.

[Jon Miller]

Err, but we assume that the universer is Physical. Theists claim God is not.

You can have your nonphysical, nonscientific universe. I like my physical universe.

Note that there are currently some theories which allow for a universe without beginning.

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

The point about God is that He is supernatural...

Jon Miller

[Berzerker]

According to the Christian theory of creation , God created everything . I seek a clarification on this point . There are two theories which I have come up with :

a) There was some matter , or some formless thing , which existed before god did , and that god only gave the formless the form of the current creation

or that

b) There was nothing before God , and God himself in the beginning was without form , only a potentiality . Then God decided to make the potential the real , and then proceeded to transform himself , or his potential , into matter , and thus creation ( i.e. , that because something cannot come from nothing , God could not create matter from nothing , and thus had to create it out of himself )

Genesis is clear - the water existed before God created Heaven and Earth. And according to Genesis, Heaven is the name God gave to the firmament which divided the waters above from the waters below, and Earth is the name God gave to the dry land that appeared when the waters below were gathered and the boundary between land and sea was created. Not only is this a common feature among creation myths, its what science tells us about plate tectonics and continent building.

But according to the Gospel of Judas, this creator God is not all powerful and not to be worshipped. That tells me either Jesus or the author of that gospel knew the symbolic nature of the older creation myths.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Err, but we assume that the universer is Physical. Theists claim God is not.

You can have your nonphysical, nonscientific universe. I like my physical universe.

Note that there are currently some theories which allow for a universe without beginning.

The point about God is that He is supernatural...

How can you have a scientific universe when it is created and continuously modified by God's magic?

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Sandman




How can you have a scientific universe when it is created and continuously modified by God's magic?

Because obviously God isn't like that.

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Was the universe not scientific 400 years ago because we did not understand the atom? Obviously it was still scientific.

Just because we don't understand something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Just because we can't understand something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Jon Miller