WHAT is so bad about U.S. isolationism?

[KrazyHorse]

It's easy to be isolationist when you have no pretensions to world power and your only possible rivals are an ocean away. It's more amazing to me that the US got involved in WWI at all than that they got involved so late.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Agathon


OK. The Greeks still win by a hefty margin. Hell, even the Romans admitted that. Why do you think most educated Romans spoke Greek?

Think of Caesar's last words...

Et tu, Brute?

[TCO]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
By the way, I tend to like people who beat me in arguments. They're generally more interesting than the average.

Dude, has that happened?

[KrazyHorse]

The Italians don't let you dock?

[TCO]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
It's easy to be isolationist when you have no pretensions to world power and your only possible rivals are an ocean away. It's more amazing to me that the US got involved in WWI at all than that they got involved so late.

Yes, I think geography is a big part in this. It's not a surprise to me. But let's move the discussion forward. So can the ocean STILL provide this role for us?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
The thought that de Tocqueville is relevant in determining national attitudes and proclivities 170 years after the fact (on the other side of a civil war, 2 world wars, massive immigrant influx from a more diverse population, the Great Depression and the rise of the US as a global hegemon) is ridiculous.

Not to mention that he just parrots The Federalist Papers.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by TCO


Dude, has that happened?

Adam Smith beat up on me one time. That was worst one. Had some good fights with you, lotm (he smacked me down once or twice), Imran, a couple of others.

[TCO]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
The Italians don't let you dock?

Sure they do. BTW, you have to get permission every time you come in. They always give it, but god forbid you forget to ask. We do get some local sustenance. A lot of the JP5, FO, parts, US consumables, are still unrepped though. There's always a US oiler in the Med as part of the battle group. No reason if you were just supporting a CVBG from a national shore.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by TCO


Yes, I think geography is a big part in this. It's not a surprise to me. But let's move the discussion forward. So can the ocean STILL provide this role for us?

No. Note the part where I talked about having pretensions to world power. You've got your hot little hands on the latest version of world domination, and though it's slipping slowly out of your grasp you won't let go until long after it's obvious to everybody else that it's gone.

Nobody ever does.

[TCO]

But the method of logisitics seems a minor point to the major one that an inland sea of the most historically European nature is controlled by the US. Ok, we'll give the Brits the choke point. Even there though...pretty interesting that it is not a Med power controlling that. Almost like the UK is a little America with it's channel and everything. But still messing with someone else's lake.

(The point about unrepping...which we do better and more than any other fleet in the world bar none and have since 1945...is just to emphasize the extreme nature of the imperial reach.)

[TCO]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I think your impression of him as accurate is more due to the "horoscope effect" than to his insightfulness...

He hits some things. And its amazing to me when I see people who don't get some of it. It's almost like a clarifying stereoptype of an ethnic group or something.

[TCO]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Adam Smith beat up on me one time. That was worst one. Had some good fights with you, lotm (he smacked me down once or twice), Imran, a couple of others.

Well if you were on AS's turf. I mean it's Jordan playing baseball...

I just like to ask the clarifying engineering questions about bouncing light beams... but you still get all the credit. Asking manager type questions is easy.

[TCO]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


No. Note the part where I talked about having pretensions to world power. You've got your hot little hands on the latest version of world domination, and though it's slipping slowly out of your grasp you won't let go until long after it's obvious to everybody else that it's gone.

Nobody ever does.

Stand Navy down the field! Anchors Away!

[KrazyHorse]

a) There's a lot of people in the US. Makes a lot of things possible

b) Nobody else wants to spend the money. Once you're on top of the heap, though, it's like having a tiger by the tail. You know it's dangerous to keep hanging on, but you're even more afraid of what happens if you let go. This fear motivates the US into spending mounds of cash...

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by TCO


Well if you were on AS's turf. I mean it's Jordan playing baseball...

I just like to ask the clarifying engineering questions about bouncing light beams... but you still get all the credit. Asking manager type questions is easy.

So I slipped a couple of decimal places...sue me...