Italian elections picture thread

[Datajack Franit]

This for an easier understanding

[alva]

So basically, "foreign" Italians will/may decide this election.

[Sandman]

That's lame. But like the House of Lords slowing down Blair's dictatorial meddling, it's a good sort of lame.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
If you claim victory when you have a majority of 49,8% and a minority (even with more senators) of 48%, to say that you are the winner is illegal.

It's not illegal. You can claim whatever you wish in a country that has freedom of expression. Heck, you can claim that DatajackFranit is the new Prime Minister of Italy, and nobody is going to punish you for that.

It has, however, no legal value. The Unione could claim whatever it wanted, it still couldn't enact any part of its programme as long as it didn't enjoy a majority in both houses.

[germanos]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit



This for an easier understanding

That is really mindbogling

341/(341+277) seats=55% vs. 45%

The senate is even more baffling, as the smaller % gets the most seats

[Fistandantilus]

It's the 'majority bonus'; the leading coalition get boosted to 55% of seats to ensure 'governablity'.

In the senate the majority bonuses are assigned on a regional basis, so, to make it simple, it can happen that if a coalition leads (even by a small margin) in lots of regions it gets more seats than the one leading in less regions by a huge margin.

[Barnabas]

So, old geezers from brazil, argentina and USA who havent been to italy in half a century will decide who wins?

[joncha]

Bocce Ball Party FTW

[Datajack Franit]

It has, however, no legal value. The Unione could claim whatever it wanted, it still couldn't enact any part of its programme as long as it didn't enjoy a majority in both houses.

That's what I hate. They would rather make a short-living coalition rather than making a large liberal alliance and solving some of the problems we have. Even if they manage to vote for something at the Parliament, the Senate would shoot down anything they don't like.

The smallest parties and their reasons for joining the Unione (Radicals-gay unions and stem cell research, Verdi-anti TAV rail network and anti-Messina strait bridge) may just leave the coalition and cause the government to crash in the next 6 months. I don't understand why can't they make a Prodi government with half of the ministers of the other coalition (like in Germany). Or even giving Berlusconi the presidency of the Senate. They just want to rule, no matter how many months this government will last.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
I don't understand why can't they make a Prodi government with half of the ministers of the other coalition (like in Germany).

Because Italy's right is not comparable to the German conservatives. Contrary to German political landscape, the two Italian blocks are comprised of many parties, so a left-right coalition would never be possible with the whole spectrum of parties. So, which right parties could a left leaning government live with: the right fringe is not to be negotiated with by default (Bossi, Mussolini); Aleanza Nationale despite its turn-around due to its clearly fascist past (and partly present) an unlikely partner.
Forza Italia - to vote Berlusconi out was the main purpose of the whole electoral campaign. I won't repeat what I already stated before. It's the person that is simply not acceptable. And could you imagine him cooperating with the Communist world conspiracy (which includes, it seems, fervent Stalinists like Helmut Kohl)? Please...
UDC and PRI, don't know enough but they seem to represent what in "normal" European nations is called "liberal" or "conservative". Would they make the ideological jump to join a left leaning coalition as junior partners?
The problem is that from the beginning two opposing blocks confronted while in Germany, there were simply running 5-6 parties independently, looking for possible coalitions later.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
That's what I hate. They would rather make a short-living coalition rather than making a large liberal alliance and solving some of the problems we have.

A grand coalition isn't exactly easy to do when you have been consistently insulted, throwed mud at, and generally belittled by your main opponent. It isn't exactly easy when your main aim during the campaign was to rid your country of said opponent, because you consider him to have been a horrible liability for the country.

Even if they manage to vote for something at the Parliament, the Senate would shoot down anything they don't like.

If I understand the charts rightly, the left has a small plurality of seats at the senate. If it is united in a strong bloc (for example, to pass the legislation written in the common programme, which are the points most likely to have a 100% discipline in the coalition), the left will need the votes of several lifelong senators anyways.

How do the the lifelong senators lean? Are they more ppro-Prodi or pro-Berlusconi?

[Datajack Franit]

How do the the lifelong senators lean? Are they more ppro-Prodi or pro-Berlusconi?

There are 6 lifelong senators, 5 of them vote for the Centre-left. But most of them never attend votations, so it doesn't really matter (they are all above 80 years old, go figure out). Another problem is that Italian politicians don't work: their attending rate is one of the lowest of Europe, as the previous government had some of their Senate votations deserted either for lack of a number of voters from BOTH parties


You may be right about Berlusconi, but if people keeps voting for him, that's not because we're just a bunch of *******s. Berlusconi wouldn't exist in a normal country. He keeps being voted (more than 12 years in politics already) because people feel there's much worse than him. Centre-right doesn't exist in Italy without Berlusconi. The other parties are mere puppets following him anywhere.

Look. The real problem of Italy is the North between the South. With capital letters. North is industrialized, open-minded, focuses on profit and some xenophoby. Crime skyrocketed since the 90's, taxation is VERY high and services coming back are very low, as everything goes into unemployment support, development support, anti-mafia support for the South.

The North feels like the cash-cow of a world that refuses to work and just waits for new checks. This is why Berlusconi wins. He promises a federation where every region manages its own money, has its own regional police force, is allowed to throw away illegal immigrants and has more funds for better schools and hospitals. And to obtain this, they don't give a damn about Berlusconi's fame. They trust him, as they know the alternative is a bunch of incompetents that never worked a single day of their lives (most Unione leaders are intellectuals, didn't do anything but politics and have big villas and yachts). This, to the Milanese businessman or the Torinese industry worker, is not acceptable.

ALL of the most populated regions of the North of Italy had a majority of votes for Berlusconi. Also the richest and most populated of the South. We don't want to put in power a dictator or a thief, we're just fed up of incompetents treating us as cash-cows.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
bunch of incompetents that never worked a single day of their lives (most Unione leaders are intellectuals, didn't do anything but politics and have big villas and yachts).

Just a quibble. The hardest work I ever did was when I worked for a politician (and I have sampled several kinds of employee or worker jobs). Among the people I know well, those who work in politics are among the most hardworking.

[Vince278]

I know Staller retired from politics but has she retired from acting as well?

[alva]

I surely hope so.