Chavez steals millions from foreign companies.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
That is why I said at this point, he would be better advised to tax these companies more to claw the money back...

He does tax the companies. Most of them have coughed up.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Very true, it is the whole difficulty in speaking in terms as black and white as 'theft' when dealing with these kinds of matters. A change of regime, for examples the expropriations in Cuba that followed the revolution occurred in this manner. The new regime considered themselves to have a blank slate, so to speak...

I seem to recall the original compensation offered by Castro for the expropriated assets was their declared tax value, plus interest at the US base rate at the time. The offer was declared to be grossly undervaluing the assets by those who lost out.

Well, I found it amusing anyway.

[Velociryx]

THAT is pure genius! Now that....I love.



-=Vel=-

[Arrian]

Heh, I'm with Fidel on that one!

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

That's some creative accounting.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Have you forgotten the employers "strike," i.e., the lockout, so soon? Those numbers Oerdin keeps showing about Venezuela's falling oil production came from a time when those running the Venezuelan economy decided that they would "make the economy scream" in order to get rid of Chavez.

No, the figures cover up to Novmber of last year. The BBC article is from 2002 which was when the strike occured simply because that was the last time the main stream media bothered to report about Venezuela's oil production. For economic data you have to go to one of the analyst companies but it is very hard to find such data in the public domain. Those companies, after all, make their livings by selling their data.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
I found this somehow ironic.

It's not like these foreign oil companies played fair in the process of acquiring these oil fields. You know, paying good prices, not using coercion, etc.

Oh, but they did. Remember that it was only 1992-1993 when the foreign companies were even allowed to invest in the oil sector. The foreigners created the oil industry in the 1930's but the government nationalized everything in the 1950's then after 40 years of falling behind they decided to offer new oil fields to the foreign companies at fair market rates.

They certainly didn't steal anything and paid through the nose to get what they had.

[Arrian]

Dude, you're never going to convince a communist of that. Remember, profit = theft.

-Arrian

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Oh yeah, I know that....but that's a fundamentally different beast than what Che said.

He said (or sure seemed to be saying) that the former oil bosses wanted to tank the economy to prevent the peasants from making a buck.

I gotta call bull there.

At least the objective "trying to get rid of Chavez" has some business sense to it (even if it's extremely risky). Che's explanation does not.

-=Vel=-

I agree that the objective of the oil strike (it was a management led strike) was to force Chavez out of office. However, it was primarily his wealth redistibution policies which the upper class objected to, leading to their 3 attempts to get rid of him (coup, strike and recall, all of which failed).

BTW, it looks like another lefty may win the Peruvian presidential elections. Looks like a trend to me!

[notyoueither]

It's a good trend. There's no reason to fear electing lefties anymore. Let people find their own way. If lefties look good now, all power to them. If they still look good in 10 years, they will have done a good job.

Tommy Douglas 4EvAR!

[Straybow]

C'mon, Nye, that won't cut it. Heck, the intellectual descendants of Lenin's "useful idiots" can barely manage to acknowledge the horrible massacres of the original commies after 50-70 years. In ten years Chavez will still be in power, living like a Peron but talking like a Fellow Traveler. They can't possibly see any evil in him.

---

Can't sleep, so I decided to read a boring thread. Dang it, now I just wasted an hour of my life trying to stay awake to laugh at kid, tech, et al

Vel

[notyoueither]

People given their rights will see the evil if it is there to be seen.

Simply declaring a leftist as an heir of Lenin is not very convincing.

[Velociryx]

I agree that the objective of the oil strike (it was a management led strike) was to force Chavez out of office. However, it was primarily his wealth redistibution policies which the upper class objected to, leading to their 3 attempts to get rid of him (coup, strike and recall, all of which failed).

Actually, I still disagree.

I suspect that it (the strike) had more to do with the fact that Chavez said he would not allow them to Privatize the oil business (it was already state run, so there was no "redistribution" to be done....at least not in oil...it had ALREADY been done, but there were plans afoot to privatize it) which, of course, would have put more power in their hands. Had nothing to do with wealth re-distribution as you folks define it (state takes control, wealth transfer from rich to poor). They strike in a bid to get private control (business objective, since they could make more money privately than as a state machine), and they lost out.

Nothing to do with being terrified that the great, "unwashed masses" might make a dollar....that sort of silliness makes an excellent caricature for inclusion in commie propaganda, but in the real world, it doesn't exist. Couldnt exist, because such magnificent stupidity would not be in business for very long, and deep down, the reds know that.

But the party line sounds sexier with an evil capitalist pigdog who's determined to "keep the man down," and so, they gotta play it up.

I understand.

(and thank ya, Stray!)

-=Vel=-

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Kidicious
That's some creative accounting.

Hardly. Those companies had been cheating Cuba out of taxes for decades. It was just deserts. Unfortunately, this was the very thing that caused Cuban / American relations to break down.

[chequita guevara]

Vel, do you know anything about Latin American class politics, history, etc. Or do you just assume that everyone is nice except commies? Is it the old conservative line, oh, there were problems in the past, but they've fixed all that now?

Dude, the stuff that happens there is why I became a communist in the first place, cuz I couldn't see any other way out.