Gay events, lack of logic IMO. Mr.fun explain this to me.

[Spec]

Originally posted by MrFun



Even if you don't mean this, and this was a sarcastic post -- it was completely uncalled for.

It was even worse if you really meant this. In that case, your bigotry shines through in all it's "glory."

This is just an outburst. Asher had been looking for it for the past 3 years.

Spec.

[Spec]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Great -- nice to see that you buy into the same hypocrisy and ignorance that Spec does.

Yep. I sure do!

And I'll be quick to point out that I'm an equal opportunity guy when it comes to finding such things rediculous.

I see little value in gay pride parades, just as I see little value in having a "Miss Black USA" pagent.

I'm a Celt, be descent.

The Celts, while they did have their day in the sun in centuries past, have had a long history of bloody persecution that makes the "persecution" the gay community has felt seem rather akin to a Sunday picnic.

This, however, has not prompted me to form a Celtic Pride activist group, or participate in Celtic Pride marches to celebrate our differences.

If there were such a group (and frankly, I don't know if there is or not...it's not something I have any interest in either way), I would regard it as being just as silly as the other two examples I mentioned above.

$0.02

-=Vel=-

I'm scotish, I could say the same.

Spec.

[Spec]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
Yeah I personally can't see how having a gay pride parade does much for the gay cause.

I don't remember any blacks or woman having parades. Unless you wanna include protests and riots but they're not really parades.

Though there is much to be said about comparing gay parade events to st paddy day events and the like.

The gay olympics is stupid because it assumes that gays aren't equal in sports to the rest of humanity which seems to contradict the gays message of acceptance.
Also bleating about gays sports people being prosecuted and what not is a fault within the system, just like gays being bullied at school, yet you don't see gay only schools popping up do you.

Seems that we're all a bunch of hypocritical bastards Mr.Fun.

I asked you a question, and instead of answering normaly, you attacked me.

Spec.

[Cort Haus]

Do we need 'Black Olympics?'. Er, wait, they win loads of stuff at the real one.

[lord of the mark]

so do you guys obect to gay choirs too? Gay churches? Do you think gay choirs show that gays arent good enough singers for regular choirs? Or just that they want to hang out with folks who share something important to their identity?

[Gibsie]

The basic question is, do they object to people with certain things in common coming together to celebrate that characteristic?

There's going to be a massive gathering of athletes in London in 2012 that will cause massive disruption and increases in council tax to pay for them. Oh, the horrors, why don't we unfit people get a special festival?

[Elok]

Why do you need to celebrate a common characteristic though? Seems a bit odd. Like a bunch of people gathering together and getting excited about the fact that they're all red-heads, or left-handed. They're gonna be that way whether they're proud of it or not, and they can't take any credit for being the way they are. It's just how they are. So why not just shrug and get on with life? It makes no more sense to be proud of such things than it does to be ashamed of them. "We're here, we're queer, but who gives a ****? Just call us if you want fashion help and forget about it otherwise. And quit throwing those rocks. We'll be in San Francisco if you need us." Now that's a minority we could be proud of...

[Az]

Originally posted by Spec


Which one? Penny snatcher? Is there is such a sport?





Spec.

Classy.

There are plenty of famous jewish athletes, and jews excelled in sports during all of the 20th century. from the last days, examples that come to mind are the current heavyweight IBO title holder Roman Greenberg, and the MVP in the finals in the NCAA game Shai Doron

[Velociryx]

so do you guys obect to gay choirs too? Gay churches? Do you think gay choirs show that gays arent good enough singers for regular choirs? Or just that they want to hang out with folks who share something important to their identity?

and

The basic question is, do they object to people with certain things in common coming together to celebrate that characteristic?

If these are directed at me, then my first response is that you misunderstand me.

I don't "object" to their existence. If people want to march in a "Gay Pride" parade, that's cool. I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it.

But I think that it's every bit as rediculous as a "Left-Handed Pride" Parade, or a "People Walking with a Slight Limp" Parade, or an "I Have a Third Leg" parade.

I also believe that if the main goal of a particular sub-group is to achieve a status of equality and equal treatment...if their stated goals include being treated "just the same" as everyone else, then having a parade which underscores their DIFFERENCES seems at cross-purposes with their stated objectives, which adds to the overall circus of the absurd.

That said, in response to this:

There's going to be a massive gathering of athletes in London in 2012

I would say that such a collection of atheletes will likely be gathering for competitive purposes (say....the Olympics), and as such, they are NOT gathered to push a political agenda of "treat us the same!" while parading about in a best effort to highlight the very differences they're wishing we'd overlook, and because of that, it's a categorically different beast.

But then...I suspect you knew that before you asked the question.

-=Vel=-

[Spec]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
so do you guys obect to gay choirs too?

Yes

Gay churches?

Yes. God is god, no matter what race, gender or whatever you are.

Do you think gay choirs show that gays arent good enough singers for regular choirs? Or just that they want to hang out with folks who share something important to their identity?

Not that their bad singers, just that the're segregating them selfs when they are fighting for the exact opposite. It doesn't make any sense.

Spec.

[lord of the mark]

just because someone wants equal treatment under the law, doesnt mean they dont have a seperate subculture, and want to hang out together.

For some that seperate subculture will be strong enough to motivate seperate socializing, and thus seperate organizations. for others it wont. This applies to gays, Jews, Celts, whatever. How silly it is depends on how different that subculture is, and how central to identity. If there are redheads or lefthanders who feel as different as SOME celts or Jew or Gays do, then its wouldnt be silly for them to be seperate. But I think in fact handedness is less of an issue for most people than religion or sexual orientation. National origin importance varies.

[Spec]

Nothing to do with a subculture. It's how you are born. Like people with red hair or blue eyes.

Yea, I can just see this one coming, the blue eyed choral... WE NEED TO STICK TOGETHER MY BLUE EYED BROTHERS!

Spec.

[Velociryx]

just because someone wants equal treatment under the law, doesnt mean they dont have a seperate subculture, and want to hang out together.

And they are just as free to do so as I am free to feel that it is an absurdity. No skin off my nose, and I'm not gonna lose ANY sleep over it if someone feels I'm being "bigoted" or "hypocritical" for thinking that they're a) wasting their time, and b) not helping their cause for equality.

For some that seperate subculture will be strong enough to motivate seperate socializing, and thus seperate organizations. for others it wont. This applies to gays, Jews, Celts, whatever.

Sounds good to me. So what do you think the NAACP's reaction to a "Miss White USA" contest would be? I mean, they fully endorse the "Miss Black USA" contest, and african american women regularly compete in the "Miss USA" contest, and have, in fact, won.

But in the above example, what's good for the goose, ISN'T good for the gander, and you KNOW that the NAACP would go into an organizational epiliptic fit over even the HINT that a "Miss White USA" contest was being mulled over as a possibility.

This being the case, there's clearly more going on here than "just" socialization.

It's political.

It's more than that, even, and to pretend that it's otherwise is to ignore all the signs to the contrary.

How silly it is depends on how different that subculture is, and how central to identity. If there are redheads or lefthanders who feel as different as SOME celts or Jew or Gays do, then its wouldnt be silly for them to be seperate. But I think in fact handedness is less of an issue for most people than religion or sexual orientation. National origin importance varies.

How silly it is, is a matter of pure conjecture. As with most everything else on 'poly's OT, there are no difinitive conclusions, just a collection of individual observations, and sometimes links and counter-links to cancel each other out.

The above happens to be mine.

-=Vel=-

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spec
Nothing to do with a subculture. It's how you are born. Like people with red hair or blue eyes.

Yea, I can just see this one coming, the blue eyed choral... WE NEED TO STICK TOGETHER MY BLUE EYED BROTHERS!

Spec.

Id love to read stories about red haired people agonizing over whether to come out or not, being rejected by their parents cause they had red hair and stuff like that.

Just cause two things are both genetically determined, doesnt imply they are of equal significance in the life of the individual.

I take it you oppose Mensa as well, since IQ may be genetically determined.

[Arrian]

I don't oppose MENSA, but I do think it's kinda silly.

-Arrian