French labour laws trigger immense protests

[David Floyd]

Businesses will have a real disincentive to hire people age 27-30 since they won't have that much more experience then 26 year olds

True, but only for the first few years, in the sense that within five years the current 22-27 year old workers who gain employment through the CPE will be forced to develop solid work habits, dependability, and other qualities that will make them attractive later on.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by JohnT


How does the oil crisis of 1973 make it more difficult for young people (compared to adults) to find work in 1996?

Again, looking at the graph it seems rather obvious that something happened in that time to make young people not as attractive employees as older people, something that has yet to be corrected. I don't see how a temporary oil crisis is the answer - to me, the change implies that a law was enacted.

I don't know the definitive answer, but a hypothesis is provided in point 3.4 of the link you provided.

Originally posted by Oerdin
The Scandinavian system sounds good but I imagine the various European governments have their budgets stretched as it is. Where is the money for additional social spending and how will increased taxes effect their competitiveness in the global economy?

Reduce taxes on labour and consumption, and increase it on income and capital perhaps. Denmark's tax level for the highest earners is 60% for example!

[OzzyKP]

Damn, I missed this thread entirely. And no way am I going to go back and read all 8 pages. So, in short:

French students
Ageist French labor laws
France's new labor policy if applied to all workers, not just youth

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by ajbera
www.despair.com

Tell that to the people working at my store, myself included.

[Arrian]

I'm trying to get a handle on how hard it is to get a decent job in France vis-a-vis here...

Spiff, you work as a temp (day-to-day) construction worker?

You're college educated, are you not?

-Arrian

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by C0ckney
spiff don't you work as a labourer on a building site?

Not anymore. I'm now carrying crates around a sports store.

i mean what do you expect, a pension plan?

I expect the basic respect that is owed to every human being. Among that, I expect to be allowed to voice my disagreement if there is a problem. I expect not to be fired if my boss finds out that I'm a commie (which is fairly obvious with a google search actually).

To me, it's really a matter of freedom and personal dignity. Such things exist when people are treated equally. Such things don't exist when some people can avuse their power however they want.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Arrian
Spiff, you work as a temp (day-to-day) construction worker?

You're college educated, are you not?

Not construction worker anymore, but I used to be that for nearly three monthes (I quit in order to go to Mali).

I have a prestigious education, and I should be able to land a job as a middle-rank civil servant next year. Civil Servants are virtually un-fireable, unlike private employees).

I took a year "off", in order to discover the world of manual labour, because France is such a caste society that I barely knew any worker before doing that (and for a commie, it is quite teh suck )

[Arrian]

FYI - as far as I know, being fired b/c of your political beliefs (so long as those beliefs do not directly interefere w/doing your job) would be a no-no here in teh evil USA too, Spiff. Even with our draconian capitalistic system. Such a thing would get the company sued before you could even say "pigdog!"

Spiff, I hope this question isn't insulting or too personal: do you choose to have a job like that (one that appears, at least to me, to be below your skill level), or is that the best available at this time?

EDIT: heh, crosspost!

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Civil Servants are virtually un-fireable

Seems to be the case here as well, and more's the pity.

-Arrian

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Arrian
FYI - as far as I know, being fired b/c of your political beliefs (so long as those beliefs do not directly interefere w/doing your job) would be a no-no here in teh evil USA too, Spiff. Even with our draconian capitalistic system. Such a thing would get the company sued before you could even say "pigdog!"

With the CPE, you don't have to give any reason for firing your employee. So, I don't see how I could go to the courts saying "it's unfair! he fired me for my political beliefs", because:
1. The employer would invent some bull**** reason when announcing orally that I'm fired (For example, that I sometimes don't shave on the morning).

2. In any case, the idea behind the CPE is that I'm employed as long as the employer wishes, and that he can part with me for any reason he fancies. The only protected people are active unionists (which I probably won't be, because I have my hands full already), and pregnant women (which, again, I probably won't be).

The CPE is as precarious a condition as my day-to-day contract. If I told my boss (who likes me, because I work well) that I'm a commie, there is nothing against him calling Manpower and saying "tomorrow I'd like to have X part-time workers. Spiffor needs not apply".

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by DanS
You might be surprised at some of the insane labor laws among France's competitors...

I wonder what's so insane about laws that make French workers more productive than the American ones.

[Arrian]

Fair point. Maybe I'm making a mistake thinking in terms of a risk-adverse large company such as the one I work for (an insurance company, no less!). The USofA is also, as well all know, a rather litigious society.

Another question:

Pre-CPE, if a company falls on hard times, can it fire/lay off employees due to economic necessity?

-Arrian

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by ajbera
Some morons think the world owes them a job merely because they're alive.

And some morons think the world owes them to respect the fence they built around a property that produces 1000 times what they need.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Arrian
Pre-CPE, if a company falls on hard times, can it fire/lay off employees due to economic necessity?

-Arrian

Layoffs due to economic necessities are not covered by the CPE and follow different rules.

[Arrian]

By the way, this:

I took a year "off", in order to discover the world of manual labour, because France is such a caste society that I barely knew any worker before doing that (and for a commie, it is quite teh suck )

is damn cool. I admire that, Spiff.

-Arrian