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Originally posted by DinoDoc
When a man has the ability to support his child, why should he be let off the hook from a societal perspective?
He absolutely shouldn't, but many will anyway.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
NYE i think they have been given a choice, its called their practicing of safe sex and birth control.
When you find yourself arguing with an idiot, you might want to rethink who the idiot really is. "It can't rain all the time"-Eric Draven
Being dyslexic is hard work. I don't even try anymore.
Why are you so hung up on when the decision is made? The point is, this will be a legal out for men who right now must be forced to pay for their children. If given a legal out, their behavior will only get worse.
Because if the decision is made when there still is no kid, it's not a "legal out for men not to pay for their children", since these kids don't exist yet. However, the process WILL be fairer to the fair, honest, benevolent male.
Why should I (or society in general) have to pay for your kid, Az?
Please, Dino, I BEG YOU, drag the discussion to this field so I can rest debating this with you, and let the other lefties take care of you and pwn your ass.
I have to say women arent the only ones that canbe decietful. Men are just as decietful. But that is not the point.
That's not his point, either.
Birth control is not just the responsibilty of the woman. It is both peoples jobs to make sure some form is used if neither want children.
But that's not what you've been saying all along. You're saying that even if a man was cheated into a conception, it's all his fault for not "covering his bases". A woman not only can make mistakes but can actively decieve a man about issues of fertility, and the blame will still lay on the man.
I still belive your say and choice should be made before there is a pregnancy involved and if the wrong choice is made then why should either party be less responsible?
Originally posted by notyoueither
Reproductive choice should be an option for both sexes.
It already is. I can chose to wear a condom or not. The truth is, a lot of men will be disingenuous and claim that they said they never wanted kids, when in truth all they wanted was to go bareback. Wrose, there are plenty of men under the reprehensible belief that having many children by many different women somehow makes them a big man. I know too many losers like this to make it even harder on women by allowing these asswhipes to simply say they never wanted a kid and be freed from all responsibility to their offspring.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
Mrs. T, women have choices too. They're called birth control, chemicals or surgical procedures.
Why do you feel that men need to be denied choices when women have so many?
Why should a woman be able to make the decision to obligate a man to support for 18 years, and the man have no say? If he says 'no' she still has choices, but wouldn;t be making his for him.
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Decesion making shouldnt be done after the fact. All I am saying if the guy wants to mess with fire he should be expected to be burned, same goes for the gal.
When you find yourself arguing with an idiot, you might want to rethink who the idiot really is. "It can't rain all the time"-Eric Draven
Being dyslexic is hard work. I don't even try anymore.
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
belief that having many children
Why else do people exist?
"Yay Apoc!!!!!!!" - bipolarbear
"At least there were some thoughts went into Apocalypse." - Urban Ranger
"Apocalype was a great game." - DrSpike
"In Apoc, I had one soldier who lasted through the entire game... was pretty cool. I like apoc for that reason, the soldiers are a bit more 'personal'." - General Ludd
Originally posted by Az
But that's not what you've been saying all along. You're saying that even if a man was cheated into a conception, it's all his fault for not "covering his bases".
It's half his fault. You should use protection at all times, unless you are trying to have children. If you fail to use protection, you are concenting to take care of a kid.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
Originally posted by notyoueither
Reproductive choice should be an option for both sexes.
It already is. I can chose to wear a condom or not. The truth is, a lot of men will be disingenuous and claim that they said they never wanted kids, when in truth all they wanted was to go bareback. Wrose, there are plenty of men under the reprehensible belief that having many children by many different women somehow makes them a big man. I know too many losers like this to make it even harder on women by allowing these asswhipes to simply say they never wanted a kid and be freed from all responsibility to their offspring.
Missing, or ignoring the point about a choice after the act, again.
It's pretty simple. Men should be given a choice early in the pregnancy over whether they want to be fathers or not.
Women will then have the same choices they did before, but they won;t have the power to make the man's mind up for him.
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Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
Decesion making shouldnt be done after the fact. All I am saying if the guy wants to mess with fire he should be expected to be burned, same goes for the gal.
So we can mark you on the Pro-Life side.
Good to know.
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(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.
My parents only had two children. I'm actively not having any. I will adopt. If I can control myself, others can too. By that as it may, even if I don't want kids, even if the other person tricked my into doing someting so fatally stupid as to not wear a condom, I know that the potential is that I might create a kid and be held responsible for said kid. Since I know that and chose to engage in such mind bogglingly stupid behavior, I am concenting.
There is one very easy way not to be held legally responsible for having a child. Kipped it zipped.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
It's half his fault. You should use protection at all times, unless you are trying to have children. If you fail to use protection, you are concenting to take care of a kid.
And if he did wear a condom, but something went wrong?
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.
My parents only had two children. I'm actively not having any. I will adopt. If I can control myself, others can too. By that as it may, even if I don't want kids, even if the other person tricked my into doing someting so fatally stupid as to not wear a condom, I know that the potential is that I might create a kid and be held responsible for said kid. Since I know that and chose to engage in such mind bogglingly stupid behavior, I am concenting.
There is one very easy way not to be held legally responsible for having a child. Kipped it zipped.
Good job ignoring me, but ok.
"Yay Apoc!!!!!!!" - bipolarbear
"At least there were some thoughts went into Apocalypse." - Urban Ranger
"Apocalype was a great game." - DrSpike
"In Apoc, I had one soldier who lasted through the entire game... was pretty cool. I like apoc for that reason, the soldiers are a bit more 'personal'." - General Ludd
Originally posted by notyoueither
Missing, or ignoring the point about a choice after the act, again.
It's pretty simple. Men should be given a choice early in the pregnancy over whether they want to be fathers or not.
Society, correctly, has decided that your time to make a choice is before you stick it in. Since everyone is away of this, if you then chose to stick it in, you have made your choice.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
if you then chose to stick it in, you have made your choice.
What if you don't choose to stick it in but it still happens?
"Yay Apoc!!!!!!!" - bipolarbear
"At least there were some thoughts went into Apocalypse." - Urban Ranger
"Apocalype was a great game." - DrSpike
"In Apoc, I had one soldier who lasted through the entire game... was pretty cool. I like apoc for that reason, the soldiers are a bit more 'personal'." - General Ludd
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