5% of US Workers are Illegal Aliens

[Jon Miller]

you know Spiffor that I know of few cases were mexicans are in slave like conditions in the US

but I have heard of far more of eastern europeans in europe

the US system is very easy (as long as you speak a common language) to do whatever you want

and in much of the US, spanish is a common language

I think you will find that while hispanic workers are exploited, that they aren't 'illegally' exploited as much as you think

I could be completely wrong

JM
(the only areas I have heard of slavery in the US is of haitian emmigrants by their haitian 'freinds')

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Even if you start seriously penalizing employers for hiring illegals, you're still up against the fact that, for certain jobs, there simply aren't enough Americans willing to fill them. We need to be giving out more visas and bringing in more legal immigrants.

then that would cause wages to go up instead of stagnating/falling like they are now.

[binTravkin]

Amazing. The Mexican government actively encourages illegal immigration into the U.S., and it actually prints booklets detailing how to illegally cross.

This is the issue that will ultimately rupture the Republican party. The big business types - and W - are all for it. The traditional conservatives are completely against it.

Hostile takeover!
Run for the hills!

Seriously, though this is a really amazing way to overtake part of the worlds military strongest and culturally most influentive nation and change it from within.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
True....but given those choice between using a low-paid but legal workforce and a lower-paid illegal workforce, hopefully mose employers will elect to not violate the law and risk criminal sanctions.

Zkrib, if the work force isn't illegal the cost of hiring them will be much higher.

[Drake Tungsten]

We need to be giving out more visas and bringing in more legal immigrants.

Amen to that. Grant an amnesty to the illegals already in America to get them on the books, get serious about patrolling the border to keep more illegals from coming in and then give out a hell of a lot more visas to legal immigrants.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

i say we form two new political parties out of the old - one, the 'winners', made up of business republicans and highly educated with good jobs democrats. they are the winners of globalisation. the other, the 'losers' made up of union workers, nationalists etc, who are losing out to globalisation.

it just might happen, says friedman.

[Jon Miller]

Happened a few times in the past..

JM

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by binTravkin
Seriously, though this is a really amazing way to overtake part of the worlds military strongest and culturally most influentive nation and change it from within.

You're right, and it only works if you have the tacit permission to do so from the strong government's leaders.

[Ramo]

Democrats don't want to piss off unions so they won't legalize the flow,

Unions are actually some of the more progressive institutions on immigration reform. They generally support the McCain-Kennedy legislation, f'r instance.

[Bill3000]

Originally posted by Ramo


Unions are actually some of the more progressive institutions on immigration reform. They generally support the McCain-Kennedy legislation, f'r instance.

So it changed from "THEY TOOK OUR JORBS!" to the illegal immigrants joining the unions?

[Dinner]

Re: Re: Re: 5% of US Workers are Illegal Aliens

Originally posted by Spiffor

The only reason why there are so many illegal immigrants in the US is precisely because they are an easily exploitable workforce. As long as your parties will have such a loving relationship with your big business, it'll allow that kind of slavery

Don't get to smug. I seem to recall that even with it's under performing economy Europe seems to have a very sizable illegal immigrant population.

Also most of the illegals don't have their IDs taken away or anything like that. Enforcement of laws against illegal workers is spotty at best so basically the illegals end up living normal lives though deeply impoverished ones. They'll group together and rent an apartment (typically with 5-10 people in a 1-2 bedroom place because that's the only way they can afford it), they'll get regular jobs in low skill industries where knowing English isn't needed (textiles, fast food, construction, gardening, manual labor, etc), and the employers won't care because the workers will either give them fake Social Security numbers or (more often) will simply let them work "off the books" mean without paying any taxes. That's the part that pisses off a lot of normal everyday citizens because they see illegals using a lot of social services but the majority of them don't pay the local taxes which pay for most of those social services.

Explotation doesn't happen much with the above the table illegals (I.E. the ones with fake social security papers) and they act pretty much like normal employees though they don't file tax returns at the end of the year nor can they claim SSI benifets. Those people actually make money for the federal government because they pay taxes which they never file for a refund. The vast majority who work under the table don't pay any taxes other then sales tax and they are the easiest to exploit.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Even if you start seriously penalizing employers for hiring illegals, you're still up against the fact that, for certain jobs, there simply aren't enough Americans willing to fill them. We need to be giving out more visas and bringing in more legal immigrants.

Not willing to do the jobs at the current wage (being minimium wage) but many would do it if the wage was higher. That said we should simply modify NAFTA so that the mobility of labor is included. This will solve the explotation problem, legalize workers so that they stop working under the table and start paying taxes, get the companies back in line with the law, and help out the poorest people in society.

[Spiffor]

Re: Re: Re: Re: 5% of US Workers are Illegal Aliens

Originally posted by Oerdin
Don't get to smug. I seem to recall that even with it's under performing economy Europe seems to have a very sizable illegal immigrant population.

We have a similar problem, though there are many European countries where the hunt against illegal immigrants is open (including France). France expels dozens of thousands of established illegal immigrants every year, according to a figure-driven plan.
As a result, illegal immigrants are in an extremely fragile situation, as they are terrified by the prospect of being found by the police, and the bosses usually further exploit them because of that.

The French horrible treatment of its illegal immigrants corresponds to the general EU trend (though there are exceptions, like in Spain). You might notice I'm quite opposed to that.

[Dis]

I wouldn't have a problem with it if they pay taxes. Somebody has to pay for the baby boombers retirement.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Not willing to do the jobs at the current wage (being minimium wage) but many would do it if the wage was higher. That said we should simply modify NAFTA so that the mobility of labor is included. This will solve the explotation problem, legalize workers so that they stop working under the table and start paying taxes, get the companies back in line with the law, and help out the poorest people in society.

In the Phils, we give out 50,000 visas a year to nurses, whose starting salaries are between $20,000-$45,000 a year. Every time a see a Philippine nurse heading to Johns Hopkins' or Georgetown's hospitals, to a job that pays $40,000+ base (and that will also have overtime and shift differentials), I think -- why the hell can't we fill jobs like these with our own folks? And after a year and a half here, I still have no idea. But clearly, Americans aren't willing to pursue nursing, even though the pay is decent.

I'm forced to conclude that Americans have lost the impulse for hard work and delayed gratification. If someone else, somplace else still has that impulse, hell, let 'em in. We could use the kick in the ass.