5% of US Workers are Illegal Aliens

[DanS]

I don't know anyone who wants to exclude these people

You might be surprised. That might be a majority of Americans.

[DanS]

Democrats don't want to piss off unions so they won't legalize the flow,

It seems that unions of the type sensitive to illegal immigration are becoming a lot weaker. Won't be long now before they won't be so much of a pillar of the party. I wonder what the Democratic Party will do when that day comes...

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by DanS
It seems that unions of the type sensitive to illegal immigration are becoming a lot weaker. Won't be long now before they won't be so much of a pillar of the party. I wonder what the Democratic Party will do when that day comes...

Its already happened. It happened at some point in the '80s.
Remember, Clinton signed NAFTA. The Democrats still pay some lip service to the Unions, but that's about all.

[Wycoff]

Re: Re: Re: 5% of US Workers are Illegal Aliens

Originally posted by Oerdin
Of course the Mexican government wants to get rid of the unemployed masses. Other wise they just stay at home complaining about the corrupt government which doesn't bother to provide education, social services, or much of anything else. For the Mexican government's perspective it is much better to get those unemployed people out of the country ASAP.

I understand that. What I think is terrible is that the American government hasn't publicly denounced such practices.

[Spiffor]

Re: Re: 5% of US Workers are Illegal Aliens

Originally posted by Zkribbler
I don't know anyone who wants to exclude these people -- they're too vital to our economy -- but we have to change the system, so that they can come into the country legally, with minimal exploitation, without having to face the dangers of deadly desert crossings, white slavers, sub-minimum wages and dangerous working condictions.

The only reason why there are so many illegal immigrants in the US is precisely because they are an easily exploitable workforce. As long as your parties will have such a loving relationship with your big business, it'll allow that kind of slavery

[Zkribbler]

True....but given those choice between using a low-paid but legal workforce and a lower-paid illegal workforce, hopefully mose employers will elect to not violate the law and risk criminal sanctions.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Neither party will do anything. Democrats don't want to piss off unions so they won't legalize the flow, Republicans don't want to piss off businesses which are addicted to cheap labor (and many who are addicted to abusing illegal workers) so they won't tighten rules, and both parties are desperate to pander for hispanic votes.

The solution, as far as the politicians are concerned, is to do nothing. Pretend to pass laws to keep the unions and the nationalists (not to mention the racist groups who don't want nonwhites in the country) happy then to deliberately not enforce the law to keep the business owners happy. That's a good deal for the politicians but it is terrible policy since everyone is breaking the law and knows it. Either change the law or enforce the law but don't play these half ass games.

One problem Illegal can not vote unless you live in Orange County, Calif.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
True....but given those choice between using a low-paid but legal workforce and a lower-paid illegal workforce, hopefully mose employers will elect to not violate the law and risk criminal sanctions.

What are the employers currently risking when they own an illegal immigrant?

[Zkribbler]

Using illegal aliens vs. not have any employees at all-- or paying way above market rate to get Americans to do their lousy jobs.

What I want to do is flood the employment market with lots of legal, lower paid people.

[Joseph]

But look at New Oreleans.
Before Katrina 80% black, 19% white, and 1% other.
Now during reconstruction a ton of Latino, few white and blacks.

White and black worker were being fired and latino taking their jobs.

[Spiffor]

Zkribbler:
No, I mean, as far as the employer is concerned, where's the catch?

AFAIU, the anti-illegal-immigrant laws are barely enforced once the Mexicans have crossed the border. And even in a rare occurence where politicians decide to hunt for illegal alien that are already being exploited, what is their employer risking? Will he go to jail? Will he be forced out of business? Will he be forced to work in the same conditions in Mexico?

I am under the impression the employer will get a slap on the wrist, and a fine that isn't scary enough for him not to do it again. Am I wrong?

[Apocalypse]

Spiff: You aren't wrong. Usually the only time something is done at all if there is major drug running also involved.

[Zkribbler]

No Spiffor, I can't say you are.

I'm looking at it from a risk-benefit analysis. By providing more legal low-paid employees, some employers won't undertake the risk of breaking the law.

But you're right. We have to start busting the offending employers as well.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Even if you start seriously penalizing employers for hiring illegals, you're still up against the fact that, for certain jobs, there simply aren't enough Americans willing to fill them. We need to be giving out more visas and bringing in more legal immigrants.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
I'm looking at it from a risk-benefit analysis. By providing more legal low-paid employees, some employers won't undertake the risk of breaking the law.

Well, considering that the risk of getting caught is negligible, and considering that the punishment is laughable anyway, you can forget about the "risk" part in employer's calculation.

Besides, it's not only about wage. Employing an illegal immigrant is hassle-free. You don't have to write any contract, you don't have to respect any safety regulation, you don't have to fear any lawsuit from your employee, you can give whatever order you fancy. You can also easily get absolute loyalty from your worker by confiscating his ID. If things get bad, you can even use violence on him, as it'll take a very long time before he tries anything that could jeopardize you in the eyes of the police.

The exploitation of illegal immigrants is a wonderful thing, because it spits on many rights we ordinary citizens hold for granted. If they were suddenly made legal (even if still underpaid), they would still benefit from basic human rights. And that, my friend, can simply not be allowed to happen.

If you want to seriously hurt human trafficking, you have to declare a "war on exploitation", similar to your war on drugs, where illegal employers are punished by going to jail with Bubba. Your economy will suffer a bit (especially in the states where slave labour is a significant part of the economy), but since exploitation isn't as physically addictive as drugs, you might get results once the scumbags get sodomized a few times