Hall of Famer Kirby Puckett dies

[Imran Siddiqui]

A player's career doesn't matter?

BZZZT! STRAWMAN! Learn to read, jackass . When you say his career sets him apart and I say it doesn't, it doesn't mean I'm saying his career doesn't matter.

Moron.

the playoff success is just part of it

as is his gold gloves

as is his career average

as is his 6 silver slugger awards

as is his 5 seasons of 200 hits

Which makes him a good player. But unfortunately he got hurt and didn't reach the levels required to be a Hall of Famer. The years he did play weren't so amazing to get over the fact that he played in a so few games comparatively.

I mean really, how far does this "he would have hit those marks if he never got injured" go? Players get injured. They don't hit the marks they need to hit. Unless they are WOW (like Koufax, for example), it's sad, but they just don't make it.

Like my NFL example with Terrell Davis. It's sad that his leg got messed up because otherwise, he probably would have finished in the Top 5 alltime, but it happens, and he isn't going to the HoF.

[Sava]

you are talking about 3 or 4 seasons

700 hits

that's it

if that's all the Hall of Fame is to you, a numbers game, well... that's sad

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Sava
the playoff success is just part of it

as is his gold gloves

as is his career average

as is his 6 silver slugger awards

as is his 5 seasons of 200 hits

I don't know what else Kirby could have done. He was the third best hitter of his era, next to Gwynn and Boggs. Had he not been beaned in the face and forced to retire, he would have most likely reached the COMPLETELY ARBITRARY 3,000 hit mark.

He could have been an AL MVP. I see he finished in the top ten 7 times, I think coming in third twice.

And he wasn't named WS MVP, see Frank Viola and Jack Morris.

And anyone that follows baseball has to know that gold gloves are jokes, that they often go to people with the biggest name or best press corp. The same with All star games.

[Grandpa Troll]

Umm..I deserve to be raked over the coals for the sub-standard performance of my potential and when I die not many people will care aside from family.

It just kinda is sad, a person dies and because they are celebrity they get grilled and scrutinized

I would say maybe it would be nice to use the same energy used to frown upon someone to smile and applaud something they did good

Gramps

[Sava]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel

And anyone that follows baseball has to know that gold gloves are jokes, that they often go to people with the biggest name or best press corp.

Kirby Puckett is tied for the 4th highest career fielding percentage of his "era"... for outfielders... with .989

Only Brett Butler, Brian McRae, and Fred Lynn rank higher... with .992 and then .990 tied, respectively...

Kirby Puckett is 2nd (of that "era") in career average for assists (OF)... with 12. Only Jesse Barfield averaged more per year with 14... during that "era" Puckett had 142 assists. Barfield had 162... Gwynn had 138.

Are you seriously questioning his defensive skill?

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Sava
Are you seriously questioning his defensive skill?

please gain some reading comprehension skills. I wasn't saying he was a poor fielder or a just a good one, he was clearly excellent for some time.

Are you seriously questioning that gold gloves are occassionally given out based on reputation and not reality?

edit: and I note that you did not address his lack of league mvps.

[GePap]

Last time I checked, you get into the Hall of Fame by being voted in by Sports Writers, no? Meaning it is NOT, never has been, and probably never will be just about statistics and numbers. So what is the point of arguing? Getting into the hall of fame has always been a popularity contest. I don;t see why anyone should be penalized for being popular. Who cares if your numbers are great, if no one but a few number wonks actually remember who the hell you are, or care.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by GePap
if no one but a few number wonks actually remember who the hell you are, or care.

I love it..a number wonks

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
Umm..I deserve to be raked over the coals for the sub-standard performance of my potential and when I die not many people will care aside from family.

It just kinda is sad, a person dies and because they are celebrity they get grilled and scrutinized

I would say maybe it would be nice to use the same energy used to frown upon someone to smile and applaud something they did good

Gramps

I think its foolish to whitewash someone's history and actions merely because they have left this earth. Let Puckett stand as an example both of goodness and evil, for that was truly his dual nature. A great ballplayer, regardless of his HoF credentials, who played with love and zeal, who fell into disrepute once the game he loved left him behind. I think one can learn more about himself by not pretending that people like Puckett are flawless, but instead by taking the good with the bad and applying it to themselves.

I hope that I am scrutinized by my descendants when I pass on, rather than sentimental bull**** meant only to cover up my sins.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by GePap
So what is the point of arguing?

Love of the game. I can understand people who just flip it on occasionally, that this doesn't make sense, but baseball's nature is stats vs intangibles.

Originally posted by GePap
I don;t see why anyone should be penalized for being popular.

What in the world are you referring to? Have you read the thread? Point me to where someone said something like that! really, Gepap, statements like that only kill the rest of your argument.

[GePap]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
Love of the game. I can understand people who just flip it on occasionally, that this doesn't make sense, but baseball's nature is stats vs intangibles.

How is a sometimes absurd fetish with statistics "love of the game"?

What in the world are you referring to? Have you read the thread? Point me to where someone said something like that! really, Gepap, statements like that only kill the rest of your argument.

Yes, I did read the thread, and the arguement seems to be that one side is saying Pucketts numbers were not as good as those of others, hence he should not be in there, and the other side says that numbers are not the only concern. It seems to me that if you state only numbers should get you in, you don;t believe that something as fickle as popularity should get you in.

But again, you get into the Hall of Fame by being elected by a bunch of journalists, so popularity will be a huge deal of it, and that has nothing to do with numbers.

It also makes the Hall of Fame more interesting. How oring it would be if people were placed in in simply by a dry look at stats.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel


I think its foolish to whitewash someone's history and actions merely because they have left this earth. Let Puckett stand as an example both of goodness and evil, for that was truly his dual nature. A great ballplayer, regardless of his HoF credentials, who played with love and zeal, who fell into disrepute once the game he loved left him behind. I think one can learn more about himself by not pretending that people like Puckett are flawless, but instead by taking the good with the bad and applying it to themselves.

I hope that I am scrutinized by my descendants when I pass on, rather than sentimental bull**** meant only to cover up my sins.

Some people feel it is better to let those that have, die in peace. Some call it respect rather than sentimental bull**** meant only to cover up my sins.

I am not saying its wrong to scrutinize, I am saying it amazes me that when a person dies people say "This celebrity is not anymore important than a normal person, so lets trash him and have a good time doing it"

I was merely stating it would be nice, send condolences, offer praise and remember, not one of us on earth can stand and say we are without sin, nope, not I nor you or anyone else here.

Gramps

[Berzerker]

it seems like I'm engaging in a fruitless effort. So I'm going to stop now.

that lasted 3 minutes